Robocoach signals loophole?

[RyanW]

Of course! That's why you can use four buttons.

[cardinalman86]

I'm guessing as long as you only use four buttons, which you can press in any order, and all act independently, you should be okay. If each button could execute some random program, you culd do whatever you wanted.

[Alex Dinsmoor]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Of course! That's why you can use four buttons.

I hope so! This will lead to a very interesting discussion at our meeting...

This could make the hybrid mode a fun time this year.

[Matthew2c4u]

<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the
MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the
ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard
control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those
sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other
source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by
the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD.
The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.


It looks to me that this means your entire alliance can send commands to your robot Think of the possibility if theres 12 commands

[davidfv]

Originally Posted by Matthew2c4u

<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the
MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the
ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard
control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those
sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other
source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by
the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD.
The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.


It looks to me that this means your entire alliance can send commands to your robot Think of the possibility if theres 12 commands

I am thinking how much time would you have to program each of the remotes to your robots? Once we start playing with the IR and programming it, we can see how easy it can be programmed.

[Tom Line]

I believe this is against the spirit of the rules, and therefore I will not be pursuing it. However,

What is stop you from treating one of the buttons as an enter button? For instance, say you are using 1, 2, 3, and 4. In that case, you could press 1, then 2 then 4 (enter), and the robot would do whatever "12" tells it to. This gives you 9 combinations. Or, if you'd like the robot just to pause for 2 seconds while you enter it and get rid of the "enter" button, you could have sequences like 1-3-2-4-2.

Take that a step further and pick up a programmable remote with LCD screen from radio shack. These allow a single button press to send out multiple signals. You could program one to completely control your robot.

Again - I'm not pursuing this. But it is something we discussed until we decided it was against the spirit of what First meant the rule to mean.

[Matthew2c4u]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I believe this is against the spirit of the rules, and therefore I will not be pursuing it. However,

What is stop you from treating one of the buttons as an enter button? For instance, say you are using 1, 2, 3, and 4. In that case, you could press 1, then 2 then 4 (enter), and the robot would do whatever "12" tells it to. This gives you 9 combinations. Or, if you'd like the robot just to pause for 2 seconds while you enter it and get rid of the "enter" button, you could have sequences like 1-3-2-4-2.

Take that a step further and pick up a programmable remote with LCD screen from radio shack. These allow a single button press to send out multiple signals. You could program one to completely control your robot.

Again - I'm not pursuing this. But it is something we discussed until we decided it was against the spirit of what First meant the rule to mean.

This is illegal Via <G01> and <R69> which state only four commands, and no changing the set of 4 avalible

[Mike o.]

<R65> & <R69> in Section 8 of the manual gives a really go overview of what the SIGNALING DEVICE can be and what it CAN and CAN NOT do. I think everyone should go back and give it a nice good read, it should clear up a lot of questions.

[ericbarch]

Does this put limits on state changes? For example...could 1 button be used to start and stop the action? What about holding down the button instead of just tapping it? Would this count as a separate command? It seems like this is a gray area at the moment.

[663.keith]

excerpt from <R65>
communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.

<R69>
meet all of the following criteria:
• For a single MATCH, the ROBOT shall be limited to react to a maximum of four distinct commands - either through hardware or software limitations, or a combination of the two.
• The ROBOT shall not dynamically change the recognized command set during a MATCH.
• The ROBOT may only seek out and react to permitted SIGNALING DEVICES belonging to the assigned ALLIANCE (as defined in Rule <R65>). Intentionally reacting to other SIGNALING DEVICES is prohibited.

<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the
MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD. The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.

I believe that it is pretty apparent that the GDC wants us to use the four commands as just that -- commands. I interpret the rules stating that any sort of command to do any one thing is permitted (eg. drive straight; turn left; or an entire autonomous mode), so that the buttons could be used to select a list of commands, however complex those commands are. However, I believe that any sort of stepping command, or combinations of buttons are not permitted.

[EricH]

Using the rules quoted above:

You may have FOUR buttons (any four) set to trigger FOUR routines. From Dave's example of the Mars rover, they can tell it to "investigate this rock and then come back". That can involve multiple actions.

Your 3"x5" card is to say what routines the robot will run if the right buttons are used.

My impression follows; I find nothing against this: You may as usual have multiple auto programs. Each may have a different set of routines. If this is the case, I'd advise you to have multiple cards, labeled on one side for the mode.

[ErikSR71]

This potential loop-hole is blocked in section 8 <R65>. "signaling devices shall... communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT" A signal sent by pressing multiple buttons would be a 5th message, and any action 5th action would be a 5th state or condition. There is no loop-hole with this rule.

[JohnC]

We're using an Apple remote. It has the typical circle of four buttons with one in the middle.

Top: Increment speed (both motors)
Bottom: Decrement speed
Right: Increment right motor speed (for turning)
Left: Decrement right motor speed

Is that legal?

[Dominicano0519]

yeah but aren't there controls that have programmable buttons?

cant you just say this button
but that button would include a series of programed keys

[PookAir]

Originally Posted by Matthew2c4u

It looks to me that this means your entire alliance can send commands to your robot Think of the possibility if theres 12 commands

This is not true you robot can only recive 4 diffrent encodings so all the teams can send your robot orders but there will only be 4