2008 Game- Overdrive

[663.keith]

Originally Posted by Lawry Goldstein

Personally, I kind of wish that one of the balls was on the ground, one in the air incase rookies ever end together or no-one can get a ball off that round, it will be very boring since there isn't going to be any difference and they will just have to sit there and lose.

P.S. Doesn't Plexiglas block IR light, meaning that remotes wouldn't work behind the safety shields?

by my interpretation of the rules, a team that doesn't knock their trackballs off during the entire game will actually get 24 points for both of the balls being at the top of the structure at the end of the match. this gives them time to just race around the track and rack up 6 points every lap. Even still, it seems very unlikely that the trackballs will remain on top for the entire game even if no person on one alliance can get them down, this is FIRST, we aren't known for being very docile competitors, and that structure can wiggle!

in response to the P.S: the robocoach stations have a sort of playground grating instead of plexi so that IR can transmit

[Punkk242]

I am very excited about this years game. But i guess i can only say that because i am a huge NASCAR Enthusiast. Driving this year should be a piece of cake - just like martinsville speedway except with big huge bouncy balls.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Now this year, not only do we have racing, but now we have rules that encourage us to try cool mechanical designs for manipulating the huge trackballs without worrying that the game will degrade into a defensive pushing match, a la Stack Attack.

My personal opinion, is that Overdrive will be fun and exciting. There is however, the issue that Nascar gets laughed at: six robots performing one motion each for 2 minutes. To me, there is no innovation in waiting for other robots to make mistakes. I realize there will be new technology in drive trains and grips...to that I have no doubt. But it's not like we haven't done that before. And rookie teams only have to make an order off a website for the newest and most powerful assembly, something veterans had to actually build and design which was innovation.

This leads me to say that defense will be huge. Just as big as it was in Rack n' Roll, and similar to Rn'R, no one will find it until the third week of regionals when defense strategy comes to light:

Red alliance with three top scorers and blue with two. Red wins so long as they don't screw up more than four passes. The other blue robot can do a "Stop Go Stop" defense. Stopping in front of an opponent, start the 6 seconds, move out of the way and than get back into the way. This can mess a team's tempo. Being able to keep balls away from opponents will just as big, maybe even bigger.

My personal opinion is that this game, as solid as it is, still lacks something that makes it thrilling to watch over and over again.

[JoeXIII'007]

Originally Posted by Punkk242

I am very excited about this years game. But i guess i can only say that because i am a huge NASCAR Enthusiast. Driving this year should be a piece of cake - just like martinsville speedway except with big huge bouncy balls.

On the subject of NASCAR, I think I just had a stroke of genius, not in an idea for a bot, but as far as Dean Kamen's homework is concerned...

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

With roots as regional entertainment in the Southeastern U.S., NASCAR has grown to become the second-most popular professional sport in terms of television ratings inside the U.S., ranking behind only the National Football League.[1] Internationally, NASCAR races are broadcast in over 150 countries. It holds 17 of the top 20 attended sporting events in the U.S.,1 and has 75 million fans[1] who purchase over $3 billion in annual licensed product sales. These fans are considered the most brand-loyal in all of sports and as a result, Fortune 500 companies sponsor NASCAR more than any other governing body.

Now, despite me disliking NASCAR with great intensity for multiple reasons, I think the potential for public awareness of FIRST with this game is amazing considering the fact that NASCAR has an amazing (for many reasons) fan base.

It is all just a matter of converting enthusiasm for NASCAR to enthusiasm for FIRST. If people start setting up their mobile homes on the lawns and in parking lots near regional events, we've done our job.

Simple, though simple, has its many upsides. Enjoy them while they last.

-Joe

[Michael Corsetto]

I was under the assumption that FRC stood for FIRST Robotics Competition. From what I can tell, there's hardly anything robotic about this game at all.

First, they take autonomous mode away and make it "Hybrid" mode, adding essentially limited driver controls to what used to be the programmer's time to shine. Aside from the remote controller, there is no practical use for sensors on the robot, besides standard pot's and such for any manipulators. Any effective autonomous task (ie. race around Track, knock down Trackball) could be easily accomplished with dead reckoning and finding out what position the ball is at via the 4 button remote (I like to call the RoboCoach the "mini-driver"). Although the autonomous mode might be more exciting, it definitely isn't challenging.

Second, as if sensors weren't useless enough, they hold absolutely no advantage in the Teleoperated period. I remember back in 2006 when our robot was capable of tracking the green light and adjusting the pan and tilt of our shooter autonomously and would make the shot almost every time. That was the year where I really saw was robotics was capable of, how a group of high school students could design, build and program a mobile, auto-locking, auto-shooting nerf ball launcher.

Also, contrary to what others have posted about this game reducing the "Drive train arms race" with its lack of defense, I believe it just furthers it. I see no room for innovation in the drivetrain, I don't even see why a 2 speed would be needed. All you need is a high speed, and the more motors in that drivetrain, the better as far as this game is concerned. I remeber seeing drivetrains like 1114's, Simbotics, back in 2004, which had a swivel drive where each individual swivel module was capable of being pnuematically retracted 6 inches upward in order to climb the steps on the field. For the fourth year now, we have an essentially completely flat surface, where teams can just use the kitbot, or even further perfect their 6 wheel design (ie. the "West Coast Drive"), or just rehash any number of other drivetrains used the past 3 years. Just like in the programming aspect of this game, I see no advantage to innovation in the drive systems this year.

All in all, I think FIRST and the GDC took a big step backwards with this year's game, in my opinion dumbing it down to be more "accessible" to new teams and the media, yet leaving experienced teams hanging. Seems like we're all just gonna be building RC cars this year instead of robots

Just my $.02,
Mike C.

ps. I don't like the lack of human player either, I enjoyed that aspect of human to robot interaction and I hope it comes back next year.

[Drwurm]

A whole summer project of a 4 speed transmission base. It was supposed to be a super edition west coast drive. USE-LESS.

[Nate Smith]

In the past, FIRST has given a release for copies of the manual to be made for team use. I'd look around and see if this is still the case somewhere in one of the PDF files, if so, that would give you clearance to mirror it in my opinion...

[neoshaakti]

I wish there was more interaction with the other alliance... I liked rack n roll because there was so much defense...
Im not too fond of the track idea...but my focus on strategy keeps my mind away from dwelling over my disappointment

[johnr]

my biggest concern would be how many matches this year where none of the bots can get the balls in play. 1, 2, 3,GO and nobody moved. that sort of thing from last year. also, maybe they should of had a min. weight and size. what i mean is what is the smallest, fastest bot you can build and how many times could bot get around track in two minutes. maybe two of the balls should be on ground to start.

[Diriye]

Originally Posted by VoX

I am confused about rule <G36> which states that "HOME STRETCH Height Restriction – ROBOTS in the HOME STRETCH of the opposing
ALLIANCE can not be more than 6 feet tall. A PENALTY will be assigned for each
infraction." This would make it impossible to get your trackball from the overpass (which is 6.5 feet tall!) which runs over the other teams HOME STRETCH, can you please tell me what I am missing here?

You don't get points for putting it over your opponents' overpass, only your own. So, there shouldn't be a need to be over 6ft tall in their homestretch.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Warren Boudreau

NASCAR without the wrecks. Yawn......

It's not the worst game, but it doesn't move my WOW-meter.

I bet there will be plenty of wrecks.
The last thing alot of people take into consideration is low COG thus when robots try to take the corner fast - ZING- the robot flips over in a heap. Also when teams to to poke the ball out on the move and don't get their arm down fast enough they're gonna get flipped right over.
Of course all those robot carcases on the fild are goiing to slow down gameplay considerably.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

Overdrive will probably end up like Rack n' Roll with me. I hated Rack n' Roll until it got competitive.

The one issue I'm having right now...I'm not sure if I want to sign up for Volunteering for field reset...how many people do you need to reset the field this year? 2?

All they need is Big Mike

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by neoshaakti

I wish there was more interaction with the other alliance... I liked rack n roll because there was so much defense...
Im not too fond of the track idea...but my focus on strategy keeps my mind away from dwelling over my disappointment

What happened at the end of last year in Rack n Roll I wouldn't exactly call defense. More like assault and battery.
I think everyone is selling this game short for defensive possibilities. Sure you can't go the other way but there is more to defense than just smashing your robot against the top offensive robot til it is either on it's side or in pieces. I bet you will see teams poke the ball away and send it bouncing to the far ends of the field thus costing then precious time. Using stalling tactics to make the other bot have to go around costing them time. You will see bumping and you will see people come up with other tactics to slow down the other alliance. Every year people come up wth ways to win the game that's not in the rules but doesn't break the rules. It's called gamesmanship.

[BaldGuy]

Actually rather than poke it would seem to me one the most effective strageies might be to herd you opponents TB's (there I was the first to use this abbreviation!!) and go around the track giving them two points albeit slowly, while someone else on your alliance hurdles....
Thoughts?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by BaldGuy

Actually rather than poke it would seem to me one the most effective strageies might be to herd you opponents TB's (there I was the first to use this abbreviation!!) and go around the track giving them two points albeit slowly, while someone else on your alliance hurdles....
Thoughts?

Apparently you can "herd" the trackball you just can't "possess" the trackball. What that constitutes is anyones guess. But I gaurntee you you will see people do it. So basically this game is also a bit like soccer.