How many RoboCoach Commands?

[compwiz2008]

I know that the RoboCoach can only have four buttons, but what if those four buttons did different things in Hybrid mode than in TeleOperate mode. I'm thinking of having technically eight commands. Four in Hybrid and Four in TeleOperation. For example the programming might look a little like this:

If in Hybrid {
If 1 pressed {
Do action 1
}

If 2 pressed {
Do action 2
}

If 3 pressed {
Do action 3
}

If 4 pressed {
Do action 4
}}

If in TeleOperate{
If 1 pressed {
Do action 5
}

If 2 pressed {
Do action 6
}

If 3 pressed {
Do action 7
}

If 4 pressed {
Do action 8
}}

Rule G01 and G02 states that the robot can only respond to four signals from the RoboCoach, but the signal that changes the mode from Hybrid to TeleOperate does not come from the RoboCoach, it comes from the Robot Operator Interface.

Did I just find a loophole?

Unfortunately, now that I think about it more, why would I use the IR Remote during TeleOperate if the Operator Interface has plenty of Inputs? Expecially since the OI has less frequency interference than the IR remote (from what I've been reading) and is more predictable.

[ewankoff]

along the same line of thought, can you program your robot to respond to a series of comands such as, 1,2,3 or 2,4,1 to be two distinct operations?

[Chrisms]

it's not a loophole, just creativity of coding.

also, think about this:
if you had one of your commands "cycle" through a list of 3 other commands, you could have an infinite amount of commands from 4 inputs. however... your robocoach will go nuts trying to figure out which command is which. Maybe if you had a card counter or something.. hmmm.

[frewre06]

I was thinking about this today too. Something else occurred to me. Theoretically there could be 16 command (possibly more), if you were to combine them. However with the interference issues, it would need to be less.

I have no comment on this with regard to the rules, but it makes sense if your needs require more than just 4 commands.

[bluexice27]

We are't even considering using the remote unless its the first few seconds of hybrid mode considering every one else is going to be using there remotes and the command might not be sent and we mite just screw up our whole programming , and lose our chance of scoring in the hybrid mode.

[Laaba 80]

I'm not positive, but I think I remember reading that you can only have 4 commands from the IR and that you cant do any of that stuff, but I may be wrong. Even if you could do that, you have to display a 3 by 5 notecard saying everything that you may tell the robot to do. If you use the combinations like that, you will need alot of notecards.
Joey

[Uberbots]

one of the rules is that you cannot dynamically change control sets... sorry!

[EricH]

From the manual:

Originally Posted by Manual 7.3.2 and 7.3.6

<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD. The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.

<G49> ROBOCOACH Signaling – If the ROBOCOACH will be providing signals to the ROBOT, then prior to the start of each MATCH the ROBOCOACH must place a Signaling Card in the ROBOCOACH STATION. The Signaling Card shall be a 3-inch by 5-inch card listing the one to four actions that can be commanded by the ROBOCOACH.

(emphasis mine)

So, the long and the short of the matter is, you get four commands that can't change during a match. (Between matches is another story.)

[marccenter]

Do you think it is within the spirit of the rules to use multiple key combinations (1-2-3, 4-5-6, 7-8-9, .i.e) to
activate the four different operating modes? This way,
a team could reduce the likelihood of another remote
operating their robot during the hybrid period.
The 3 by 5 cards would still say, for example, forward,
left, right, and reverse. Forward could be 1-2-3, Left
4-5-6, Right 7-8-9). This should maybe be a new thread.

[yoyodyne]

I think that the Robocoach can only make the robot do 4 things during a match. As for the changing from hybrid to tele - the second bullet of <R69> specifically disallows that.

• The ROBOT shall not dynamically change the recognized command set during a MATCH.

As far as combining commands to create more combinations the last bullet of <R65> explicitly disallows that

• not use changes in the signal states to encode or transmit larger messages (e.g. Morse
code)

We were of course also thinking about techniques to increase the number of commands and it has become clear that there can only be the 4 that are on the card posted on the Robocoach station.

Good luck,

Greg

[GBIT]

Originally Posted by marccenter

Do you think it is within the spirit of the rules to use multiple key combinations (1-2-3, 4-5-6, 7-8-9, .i.e) to
activate the four different operating modes? This way,
a team could reduce the likelihood of another remote
operating their robot during the hybrid period.
The 3 by 5 cards would still say, for example, forward,
left, right, and reverse. Forward could be 1-2-3, Left
4-5-6, Right 7-8-9). This should maybe be a new thread.

i cant see why not seeing it is still only four actions. correct me if im wrong.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by GBIT

i cant see why not seeing it is still only four actions. correct me if im wrong.

It's also harder to do. And, see <R65>:

Originally Posted by Section 8.3.8

<R65> SIGNALING DEVICES shall be designed to communicate signals from the ROBOCOACH to the ROBOT. SIGNALING DEVICES are excluded from Rule <R64>. SIGNALING DEVICES shall:
• use either passive (no emission of any electromagnetic radiation) or active (emits some restricted form of electromagnetic radiation) means of communication
• be hand held and completely supported by the ROBOCOACH when operated
• does not attach to anything or anyone other than the ROBOCOACH
• exclusively receives input from, and is operated by, the ROBOCOACH
• not receive any input or feedback directly from the ROBOT (the ROBOCOACH may receive feedback from the ROBOT and use it to control the SIGNALING DEVICE)
• be no larger than 3 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep (to fit within the confined volume of the ROBOCOACH STATION
• remain entirely within the ROBOCOACH STATION
• use a maximum of four different inputs from the ROBOCOACH (e.g. use four different buttons) during any single MATCH
• communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.

(emphasis mine)

Can we put the lawyers to bed now? I'm pretty sure the intent is FOUR buttons control FOUR commands, in a 1:1 ratio.

[Phalanx]

My thoughts are like this for the moment.....

Let's say you have 16 selectable autonomous/modes for your Robot. Each one of those modes uses only 4 commands, but the 4 commands mean different things depending on the selection setting.

In each round the ROBOCOACH would have a card that list each of the 4 commands used in that mode, or 16 cards of 4 commands each. So in theory you only have 4 commands for any given match, but up to 64 commands available to choose from or 16 command sets to choose from.

To me this seems completely doable and within the rules.

I do think that some clarification from the rules committee is needed.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Phalanx

My thoughts are like this for the moment.....

Let's say you have 16 selectable autonomous/modes for your Robot. Each one of those modes uses only 4 commands, but the 4 commands mean different things depending on the selection setting.

In each round the ROBOCOACH would have a card that list each of the 4 commands used in that mode, or 16 cards of 4 commands each. So in theory you only have 4 commands for any given match, but up to 64 commands available to choose from or 16 command sets to choose from.

To me this seems completely doable and within the rules.

I do think that some clarification from the rules committee is needed.

As long as multiple automodes are permitted, this would be legal as long as you didn't change during the match.

[compwiz2008]

Thank for all the answers. I think it is abvious that the FIRST rules do not want us to have more than four methods and four buttons, one for each button. Thankfully, our design only needs three, and one as an emergency stop.

As I said earlier, were just going to use the Operator Interface for buttons instead of the remote during TeleOperate.