rule question on scoring above overpass

[jerry w]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

But, while the trackball is sitting on the overpass it hasn't yet CROSSED. So is the second-touch rule in effect yet?

this is very tricky.
because your trackball is now resting on the overpass, part of the ball extends past the finish line. if you now dislodge the ball, using your robot then you get no points, since you are touching the ball while it is crossing the line.
you get no 2-point score nor the 6-point bonus. however, if you pull the ball back from the overpass, and then hurdle the ball correctly, the score should be given.

jerry w

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by jerry w

this is very tricky.
because your trackball is now resting on the overpass, part of the ball extends past the finish line. if you now dislodge the ball, using your robot then you get no points, since you are touching the ball while it is crossing the line.
you get no 2-point score nor the 6-point bonus. however, if you pull the ball back from the overpass, and then hurdle the ball correctly, the score should be given.

jerry w

And that's another question. Does the rule prohibiting touching the ball as it crosses the line apply to hurdling?

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

And that's another question. Does the rule prohibiting touching the ball as it crosses the line apply to hurdling?

I believe you are allowed to be touching the ball during hurdling. I also believe that will a clarifying update from FIRST explaining this. Lots of threads on this site asking the same question.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

I believe you are allowed to be touching the ball during hurdling. I also believe that will a clarifying update from FIRST explaining this. Lots of threads on this site asking the same question.

I do not believe that you will score if you are touching the ball while hurdling. The reason is that 2 points are scored because the ball passes the line with a 6 point bonus for being over the bar. Since the ball was being touched while crossing the line, there would be no point for crossing the line and and as such no bonus points either.

[Sunshine]

Yea Dan,

I saw your post and reasoning on other threads. I guess only time will tell who is right

I believe your logic is correct for going under BUT not for going over.

If I knew that I would see you in Atlanta I'd put a friendly wager on it

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Yea Dan,

I saw your post and reasoning on other threads. I guess only time will tell who is right

I believe your logic is correct for going under BUT not for going over.

If I knew that I would see you in Atlanta I'd put a friendly wager on it

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

You've got it Dan Let's monitor this thread to see who was right

[Sunshine]

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

Chocolate Krispy Kremes it is ... Now to make it to Atlanta.

[ALIBI]

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise). EDIT: you can not have the trackball completely pass the finish line, pull it back into you home stretch, drop the ball on the floor and quickly regain control, provided your robot doesn't completely enter the next quad.

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise).

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

I believe that the spirit of the rule indicates that your first scenario is correct.

In your second scenerio ....... ya' you can do it but without getting points so why bother. Of course, you'd get the points at the end of the match if that is your intent ......... hmmmmm more checking needs to be done

[meaubry]

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

[jediptm]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

Here is the relevant portion of the rules...
<G12> A TRACKBALL must CROSS a LANE MARKER before it can score for the first time by HURDLING or CROSSING its FINISH LINE.
<G13> A TRACKBALL that has CROSSED its own FINISH LINE must CROSS the opponent’s FINISH LINE before it can score by CROSSING its own FINISH LINE again.

Another question, does hurdling count as "crossing its finish line" in this instance? It seems that crossing and hurdling are considered two separate actions. If this is true, can you have a robot just past your finish line bump the trackball back to your hurdler and have them re-hurdle the ball? (assuming neither robot crosses the finish line)

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

I will be waiting for my half-dozen in Atlanta...


-dave

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by dlavery

I will be waiting for my half-dozen in Atlanta...


-dave

I'll be happy to share my bounty with you Dave. It'll be a privilege