rule question on scoring above overpass

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

And that's another question. Does the rule prohibiting touching the ball as it crosses the line apply to hurdling?

I believe you are allowed to be touching the ball during hurdling. I also believe that will a clarifying update from FIRST explaining this. Lots of threads on this site asking the same question.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

I believe you are allowed to be touching the ball during hurdling. I also believe that will a clarifying update from FIRST explaining this. Lots of threads on this site asking the same question.

I do not believe that you will score if you are touching the ball while hurdling. The reason is that 2 points are scored because the ball passes the line with a 6 point bonus for being over the bar. Since the ball was being touched while crossing the line, there would be no point for crossing the line and and as such no bonus points either.

[Sunshine]

Yea Dan,

I saw your post and reasoning on other threads. I guess only time will tell who is right

I believe your logic is correct for going under BUT not for going over.

If I knew that I would see you in Atlanta I'd put a friendly wager on it

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Yea Dan,

I saw your post and reasoning on other threads. I guess only time will tell who is right

I believe your logic is correct for going under BUT not for going over.

If I knew that I would see you in Atlanta I'd put a friendly wager on it

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

You've got it Dan Let's monitor this thread to see who was right

[Sunshine]

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

Chocolate Krispy Kremes it is ... Now to make it to Atlanta.

[ALIBI]

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise). EDIT: you can not have the trackball completely pass the finish line, pull it back into you home stretch, drop the ball on the floor and quickly regain control, provided your robot doesn't completely enter the next quad.

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise).

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

I believe that the spirit of the rule indicates that your first scenario is correct.

In your second scenerio ....... ya' you can do it but without getting points so why bother. Of course, you'd get the points at the end of the match if that is your intent ......... hmmmmm more checking needs to be done

[meaubry]

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

[jediptm]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

Here is the relevant portion of the rules...
<G12> A TRACKBALL must CROSS a LANE MARKER before it can score for the first time by HURDLING or CROSSING its FINISH LINE.
<G13> A TRACKBALL that has CROSSED its own FINISH LINE must CROSS the opponent’s FINISH LINE before it can score by CROSSING its own FINISH LINE again.

Another question, does hurdling count as "crossing its finish line" in this instance? It seems that crossing and hurdling are considered two separate actions. If this is true, can you have a robot just past your finish line bump the trackball back to your hurdler and have them re-hurdle the ball? (assuming neither robot crosses the finish line)

[meaubry]

Thanks jediptm for the clarification of G13
We have given some thought to the track ball passing over the overpass and believe that making contact with the overpass (actually rolling over it) is okay - as long as the ball continues to move forward once it brakes the plane of the finish line.
If the ball should not continue forward and instead come to rest in one of the openings - it would no longer be considered as passing over the over pass - and subsequently not get the points associated with hurdling.
It might however still qualify for the 12 points at the end of the match.

I'm sure the question will be asked on the FIRST site soon - and then we'll know for sure.

Mike

[EricRobodox]

Im a little bit confused here. Because if you can touch the ball while hurdling, would you still get the points if you threw the ball, it passed the over pass and the finish line, but then happens to bounce off you after you had crossed the line. I would think the rule was created so you have to let it hit the ground after the hurdle, or another robot; this way no robot can just continuously hold the trackball.

I just hope they notice that a lot of teams will hurdle the ball, drive forward, and then realize that the ball they threw is going to land on top of themselves, making the hurdle invalid, even though it is obvious their intention was not to catch the ball but merely cross the line.

[ALIBI]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Thanks jediptm for the clarification of G13
We have given some thought to the track ball passing over the overpass and believe that making contact with the overpass (actually rolling over it) is okay - as long as the ball continues to move forward once it brakes the plane of the finish line.
If the ball should not continue forward and instead come to rest in one of the openings - it would no longer be considered as passing over the over pass - and subsequently not get the points associated with hurdling.
It might however still qualify for the 12 points at the end of the match.

I'm sure the question will be asked on the FIRST site soon - and then we'll know for sure.

Mike

Are you saying that if the ball comes to rest (for that matter even if it was moving/rolling all the time it could still break the plane) and the the bottom of the ball is slightly below the bar of the overpass it can no longer be considered as passing over because at one point part of the ball was technically below the plane (EDIT: horizontal) of the overpass?

In the definiiton of Hurdle it says that a hurlde is when the trackball crosses the alliance finish line, not break the plane of the finish line. In looking at the rules other places (E.g. G22 for one) where crossing is being used this year, it seems as though to cross something you must completely pass/cross the plane that something.

I have been under the impression that the score for a hurdle counts when the trackball goes completely past the finish line (all other conditions saticefied). I do not see in the rules where once it breaks the plane of the finish line it must continue (pass) in one motion to count.

I could see a strategy where a team would place the trackball on the overpass, and then without completely leaving the home stretch, reach under/around and grab the trackball from the other side, lower the arm/trackball close to the ground, drop the trackball for a second (8pts awarded now), grab the trackball and repeat (do a lap).

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

I will be waiting for my half-dozen in Atlanta...


-dave