rule question on scoring above overpass

[redbarron]

I think the robot cannot be touching the trackball at any point while the trackball breaks the plane of the line. Therefore when the ball is on top it has been touched while entering and leaving the plane if it is sat up there then grabbed off.

[JesseK]

bah, nvm, I see the big conflict.

Keep in mind they mean for a CROSS to have a vertical projection, e.g. from a bounce or from launching it. No matter how I twist this in my head it seems the grey area is whether or not the "vertical projection" must happen before the trackball breaks the plane of the finish line or if it is still scorable to give the ball a vertical projection after it breaks the plane but before it has fulled CROSSED.

[ALIBI]

The rules seem to indicate that you must let go (not be in contact with) the trackball sometime before, during or after it completely crosses the finish line once you do whatever it is you do to get it over and to count it must touch either the floor or another robot before you touch it again.

When the trackball is completely past the finish line, if you have not all ready let go of it, you must do so now. Then, before you touch it again, it must touch either the floor or another robot.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Dominicano0519

um you can definitely work around that just make you manipulator work above your robot

i.e. put the ball on the over pass

and move foward ( cross the line for two points yessssss!!!!!!!! more points) and reach back w/o moving your entire robot back

...And have a 10-point penalty for re-crossing the line (breaking the plane is counted as re-crossing), giving you a score of zero for the maneuver and a loss of time as you must go around again.

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

You've got it Dan Let's monitor this thread to see who was right

[Sunshine]

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

hehe.

If we make it to Atlanta (we'd need to win the BAE GSR) I'll take that friendly wager ... say a box of Krispy Kremes? (**Hey Dave, I'd split 'em with you **)

I will be waiting for my half-dozen in Atlanta...


-dave

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by dlavery

I will be waiting for my half-dozen in Atlanta...


-dave

I'll be happy to share my bounty with you Dave. It'll be a privilege

[Kellen Hill]

With the updated rule, can you stay in complete possession of the ball while putting it over the overpass? Could you do that and just have the ball touch the ground or another robot before doing it again?

By complete possession i mean putting it over and catching it on the other side without letting it hit the ground.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Hey Dan!

This just in from FIRST and the very FIRST Team Update.......

Section 7 – The Game
Section 7 – The Game has been updated as follows: Rule <G36> has been removed. There is no longer a height restriction in an
opponent’s homestretch. The reference to Rule <G10> has been deleted from Rule <G11>. Robot contact with a trackball while hurdling is permitted, however a trackball passing under the Overpass and across the finish line must not be in contact with a Robot, per Rule <G10>.

I like chocolate Krispy Kremes

Chocolate Krispy Kremes it is ... Now to make it to Atlanta.

[ALIBI]

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise). EDIT: you can not have the trackball completely pass the finish line, pull it back into you home stretch, drop the ball on the floor and quickly regain control, provided your robot doesn't completely enter the next quad.

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

[Sunshine]

Originally Posted by ALIBI

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Deleting the Ref. to R10 from R11 means you can stay in contact with the ball while hurdling. Looking at the definition of Hurdle am I right to state the following:

The definition says to be a hurdle, the trackball must contact the floor or another robot before re-contacting the originating robot, you still have to let go of the trackball before, during or after the trackball completely crosses the plane of the finish line to count, it is just that now you do not have to be concerned about when you let it go (penalty/point wise).

And I have another question:

Lets say that my trackball passes my opponents finish line and somehow or another moves clockwise back into the quad between the home stretches, as long as I do not break the plane of the finish line, can I hurdle in a cockwise direction and then say have an alliance partner place the trackball on the overpass from my home stretch?

I believe that the spirit of the rule indicates that your first scenario is correct.

In your second scenerio ....... ya' you can do it but without getting points so why bother. Of course, you'd get the points at the end of the match if that is your intent ......... hmmmmm more checking needs to be done

[meaubry]

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

[jediptm]

Originally Posted by tbd

We have a simmilar dilemma:
What actually is considered a hurdle?



^ is that really a possibility? Is putting the trackball on the overpass and just pushing it off again considered a hurdle? Can the ball even touch the overpass when its hurdled?
And then ofcourse can you touch the ball during the hurdling?

Based on the definition from the rules:
HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

Above would seem to me to mean you can't set the ball on the overpass, then knock it off. When you add this to the scoring chart that says you get 0 points for knocking a ball off the overpass during the teleoperated period, I am pretty confident this would not count as a hurdle.

[jediptm]

Originally Posted by meaubry

Do the rules indicate if the scored trak ball (either under or over) cannot be scored again, prior to going around again?

I don't recall reading that - and the way the balls bounce around, it might be difficult to remember if a ball had bounced clockwise - (opposite direction, backwards into the neighboring quadrant) -after it had previously scored.

If it is okay to pick up and score a trak ball that has bounced backwards - It would increase the opportunity for higher scores.

I guess I'd better start re-reading those parts of the rules one more time.

Here is the relevant portion of the rules...
<G12> A TRACKBALL must CROSS a LANE MARKER before it can score for the first time by HURDLING or CROSSING its FINISH LINE.
<G13> A TRACKBALL that has CROSSED its own FINISH LINE must CROSS the opponent’s FINISH LINE before it can score by CROSSING its own FINISH LINE again.

Another question, does hurdling count as "crossing its finish line" in this instance? It seems that crossing and hurdling are considered two separate actions. If this is true, can you have a robot just past your finish line bump the trackball back to your hurdler and have them re-hurdle the ball? (assuming neither robot crosses the finish line)