Suggestion to Fix Rules of Height, and Opposite TrackBall

[Chris_Elston]

I think one good way to fix the rules of the height, and getting your own ball down from Opposing side, would be to put both the SAME colored trackballs in your Alliance side.

So instead of a RED and BLUE trackball, you get two RED trackballs (Red Alliance) and two BLUE trackballs (Blue Alliance) in front of you. That would fix it up pretty nice and allow your alliance to get 16 points in hybrid if both of you can get a ball down. What do you guys think? I am sure the game design guys have their own idea, but that would be a pretty sweet change up.

[Alan Anderson]

Who says they need to be fixed? I wouldn't be upset if the rules remained exactly as they are. I can think of five ways to remove a trackball from the overpass above the opposing alliance's lane while not violating any rules.

[Chris_Elston]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Who says they need to be fixed? I wouldn't be upset if the rules remained exactly as they are. I can think of five ways to remove a trackball from the overpass above the opposing alliance's lane while not violating any rules.

This is TRUE, however I was trying to inject "positive" thoughts into CD.

I can't remember where I read it, but someone pointed out that no score was shown in the animation this year. I am starting to believe, this MIGHT be a planned task. In that yes, they GDC meant to do this. What was it that Dave said was "Albert Einstein Quote"???

BTY....seen you on NASA TV :-) You looked as serious as you always do. :-)

[Pavan Dave]

I don't think that FIRST needs to change the positioning of the balls. BUT I do think I will see them change the 6' rule on the opposing home stretch. That said...

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Who says they need to be fixed? I wouldn't be upset if the rules remained exactly as they are. I can think of five ways to remove a trackball from the overpass above the opposing alliance's lane while not violating any rules.

Would you like to share any of your ideas??

Also I saw you on the webcast too! How did you get such good seats?

[Chris_Elston]

Originally Posted by Pavan

Would you like to share any of your ideas??

1. Cross the Finish Line, and reach backwards to get your ball.

2. Use another ball.

3. We are checking this one..field not done yet...but over pass is 6.5, ball droops down into the 6.0 feet range, 7" droop maybe??? you might be able to stick up right at the 6 feet mark, and still barely scrap the bottom of the trackball from bottom....again...still checking into that one...

that's a couple.

[Bob Steele]

I agree that something needs to happen. I personally like the idea of the balls being in the scoring pass but there is a problem with that. The opposing team would not be able to descore them at the end... so a team with no hurdlers could get an automatic 24 points...just leave the balls there...
this would negate 3 hurdles from the other team... and then its a pure race...


You "might" be able to kick a ball out of someone's home zone overpass from underneath but that will be a nightmare for the referees.

If the rule actually means that if you reach "back" into the zone you are violating the six foot rule I see no good way for a robot to dislodge a ball from the opponents home zone. Crossing the plane of the zone would be considered "in" the zone therefore illegal. If one cannot contact the ball (it is at close to 6 feet) from either inside the zone or outside the zone the only alternative is to use the ball to do the removal. That will NOT happen in Hybrid...

Let's all wait and see what the GDC (Q and A) decide to say about this.

Other alternatives are:

No 6 foot rule during Hybrid....

Referees bump all balls down at the close of hybrid....

reaching back to bump a ball out is not considered an infringement of the 6 foot rule...

6 foot rule only applies from INSIDE the zone...

We shall see... I would expect this to be addressed pretty quickly...
perhaps even in the first update...

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by Chris_Elston

1. Cross the Finish Line, and reach backwards to get your ball.

Not legal. Look at the Finish line position, you have to break the plane to knock the ball down. Even if you don't cross the plane because of ball overhang what is the chance you won't get penalized for it, I already see shades of the 2005 touching the loading zone triangle penalty controversies.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Pavan

Would you like to share any of your ideas??

Chris got three of them. The other two are something I'd actually like to keep as team secrets for now, sorry. If we don't decide to use them, I'll put them in the public domain.

Also I saw you on the webcast too! How did you get such good seats?

The mentor and student representatives of President's Circle teams were invited to attend the Kickoff (and the Founder's Reception) as VIPs.

[ALIBI]

I would agree with Alan Anderson, nothing really needs to be changed, there are several easy ways to do it without violating the rules as they are and I am a, the rules are what they are kind of guy and you should leave them alone unless a huge saftely overlook, or a contradiction or something that makes doing a task impossible or other similar situation arises before you change them. In this case you can make it work, you may just have to sacrifice some other task to do it.

However, if rule changes are in order, I agree with Bob Steele, Refs take them all down at the end of Hybrid and it is just a matter of deciding where to put them.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Chris_Elston

1. Cross the Finish Line, and reach backwards to get your ball.

Likely 10-point penalty for reaching backward across the line. There's only about 4" of legal ball surface to contact that is across the finish line.

2. Use another ball.

Doesn't appear to be legal per <G27> - it would be herding while in possession of another ball.

3. We are checking this one..field not done yet...but over pass is 6.5, ball droops down into the 6.0 feet range, 7" droop maybe??? you might be able to stick up right at the 6 feet mark, and still barely scrap the bottom of the trackball from bottom....again...still checking into that one...

I'm doubtful the droop will be enough to use any mechanism on your bot that stays under 6 feet. If a team can do it, all power to them.

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Chris got three of them. The other two are something I'd actually like to keep as team secrets for now, sorry. If we don't decide to use them, I'll put them in the public domain.

Hopefully they will turn out to be good outside-the-box thinking.

Originally Posted by ALIBI

However, if rule changes are in order, I agree with Bob Steele, Refs take them all down at the end of Hybrid and it is just a matter of deciding where to put them.

Use the 2006 Pokey-pokey sticks, and let them fall where they may?

[psyco_klown]

anyone thinking flags?

[ALIBI]

Per Gary V. "Doesn't appear to be legal per <G27> - it would be herding while in possession of another ball."

Per Definitions: HERDING: Controlling the position and movement of a TRACKBALL while the TRACKBALL is not supported by any ROBOT (i.e. supported by the TRACK or other TRACKBALLS) shall beconsidered HERDING. Both continuous and intermittent contact between the ROBOT and
TRACKBALL are permissible methods of HERDING. E.g. bumping, plowing or dribbling a TRACKBALL around the TRACK are all considered forms of HERDING.

I am still debating this one. "Controlling the position and movement" Hiting a trackball with another trackball (in your possession), my question about this is whether or not I could really have any control over where the hit trackball would end up, no doubt I would be causing the trackball to move from a resting position, this makes me think I should agree with the conclusion quoted. "Both continuous and intermitant contact" makes me think you have to hit it at least twice to be considered herding and that one hit would be OK.

How about number four try for legal means: why not catapult a trackball from your less than six foot high robot, at most it would be considered herding?

[lopz056]

yeah i think that was a good idea because i noticed that in the animation and in the real life imitation of the game they broke the hight requirements of the opposing home stretch zone, so ive been wondering what was going on with that. but yeah, email me or send me a private message w/ anymore info on the subject

[dlavery]

Please check Rules Update #1.


-dave

[Raul]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Please check Rules Update #1.


-dave

Thanks Dave - I like it when rules get tossed!

No more need to debate or make a ref make a judgement call.