Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs

[Swampdude]

It happened to us last year, and that pesky thing has done it again. Has anyone been cornered into a particular type of design because of that flag holder? With a 40" ball wanting to pass through your 28" wide design envelope, it seems you're stuck having to run parallel with it (the flag holder), or the ball can't pass any less than a 75" radius from the ground above your design envelope.... I thought I'd point that out before teams got to far into their designs. see <R17>....

Those flags were flying everywhere last year....

[Daniel Bathgate]

Ah yes. The flag holder. That little thing sure causes a lot of grief. We almost couldn't compete last year because there was no way to make our flag holder technically high enough without getting in the way of our ramp and platform design. We shredded the pole of a flag at one point as well. And with the importance of the lap counter and all the flying trackballs this year, you certainly want a sturdy flag holder. Thanks for pointing that out!

[dtengineering]

It would have been interesting if they had ditched the flag holder and simply required teams to show up with two different sets of bumpers... one red, one blue.

That would have done a better job of indicating alliances, encouraged fast-change bumper design (even more so than already encouraged) and allowed more space for handling this gianormous ball.

Mind you, at least we're all working to the same parameters... and the different coloured bumpers wouldn't make provisions for the lane counter, which will matter, I think.

J

[rfolea]

We are concerned that the impact of the hurdled Trackball will smash both the PVC pipe and flag pole, leaving shards to puncture trackballs.

.. and smash the lap counter ...

Anyone else see this as a problem?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by rfolea

We are concerned that the impact of the hurdled Trackball will smash both the PVC pipe and flag pole, leaving shards to puncture trackballs.

.. and smash the lap counter ...

Anyone else see this as a problem?

I'd be more worried about the Tackball smashing the robot.

[team1203 4life]

Originally Posted by Daniel Bathgate

Ah yes. The flag holder. That little thing sure causes a lot of grief. We almost couldn't compete last year because there was no way to make our flag holder technically high enough without getting in the way of our ramp and platform design. We shredded the pole of a flag at one point as well. And with the importance of the lap counter and all the flying trackballs this year, you certainly want a sturdy flag holder. Thanks for pointing that out!

we had the same problem last year especially since our ramp was completly colapsable

[MrForbes]

It's good to see some teams have learned a valuable lesson from last year's experience, and are taking the flag holder into account at the very beginning of build season, instead of waiting till the last day (like we did last year!)

[whytheheckme]

I hope that I'm not the only one to think this, but:

THE FLAG HOLDER IS EVIL!

It became a major obstacle last year with our ramp design, and could most certainly be a problem with this year's design.

What ever happened to the changeable color dome lights? Or even the flashing color LED reflector thingys? The flag constantly falls out, and the holder is in the way...

Mk thats my 2.5 cents.

Jacob

[daftpunk79]

Originally Posted by whytheheckme

I hope that I'm not the only one to think this, but:

THE FLAG HOLDER IS EVIL!

It became a major obstacle last year with our ramp design, and could most certainly be a problem with this year's design.

What ever happened to the changeable color dome lights? Or even the flashing color LED reflector thingys? The flag constantly falls out, and the holder is in the way...

Mk thats my 2.5 cents.

Jacob

poke it with a stick and see if it runs away...if not just deal with it i guess.

[Wayne Doenges]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the lap counter that you are required to carry during each match. From what I've read it will be attached to the flag holder 5' above the ground.
Lose flag holder and your laps won't count any more

[jdejoannis]

This is an excellent point. I suspect we are going to see a lot of flag loss and malfunctioning lap counters - especially considering how high the trackballs bounce.

But if you lose your lapcounter, don't they have to give you the points manually?

/Jason

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

It would have been interesting if they had ditched the flag holder and simply required teams to show up with two different sets of bumpers... one red, one blue.

That would have done a better job of indicating alliances, encouraged fast-change bumper design (even more so than already encouraged) and allowed more space for handling this gianormous ball.

Mind you, at least we're all working to the same parameters... and the different coloured bumpers wouldn't make provisions for the lane counter, which will matter, I think.

J

That is what we did last year. It wasn't that bad, only took about 5 minutes to change bumpers. This year we are designing it to be faster. We aren't sure where we are going to place the ugly stick at this year.

[Swampdude]

I don't like to be a complainer, especially after they put all that energy into coming up with all those rules and what not. But that flag thing is dangerous and proved not to work last year. Those things were flying like arrows all over the place last year. But now that the holder is so much taller, and the bots will be going faster, those things will get sprung out of the pipes with much more energy. If they're bent on keeping those things, then they should be retained in the holder with some kind of O-Ring. But without a mechanical lock on it, I don't think that will even help. Those giant 40" balls will be whipping everywhere, and these flag poles are huge. Safety glasses if ever are a really big deal. We saw those flags spear into people all the time.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

If they're bent on keeping those things, then they should be retained in the holder with some kind of O-Ring.

The definition of the FLAG says that is exactly what will be done.

Originally Posted by Manual Section 8, page 4

...The flagpole will run through a rubber stopper, which will be sized to fit in the top of the flag holder (as specified in Rule <R17>). The purpose of the stopper is to help prevent the flag from becoming dislodged from the flag holder during the MATCH.

[chapmatr]

Wouldn't that leave the only option to the flag snapping? From 6 1/2' in the air, we dropped the ball on an empty coke can...and it was flattened. Instantly.

Plus, our robot design was going to be short...but this reminded me of the 5' lap counter...gosh darn the design committee.