Defense, It's still here.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

I got a question.

Since they have removed the 6' height restriction in the opponents home stretch, does that mean teams can block hirdling attempts?

[Justin M.]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I got a question.

Since they have removed the 6' height restriction in the opponents home stretch, does that mean teams can block hirdling attempts?

It should have no effect on the hurdle protection rule. A hurdle attempt can only be done in your own homezone.

[jdejoannis]

Someone is in denial.

Lets face it, there is less defense this year. Last year, harassing a star scorer was quite worthwhile if you had a decent drivetrain.

<G42> is unequivocal about not harassing hurdlers.

<G29> prohibits POSSESSION of opponents trackballs. Therefore playing keepaway will be difficult.

The best chance is to herd opponents trackballs whenever the chance presents itself. Basically, give it a shove in the wrong direction whenever you see it. This is slim pickings. It remains to be seen how the judges will view deliberately moving in front of herding robot.

/Jason

[Dan Petrovic]

Originally Posted by jdejoannis

Someone is in denial.

Lets face it, there is less defense this year. Last year, harassing a star scorer was quite worthwhile if you had a decent drivetrain.

<G42> is unequivocal about not harassing hurdlers.

<G29> prohibits POSSESSION of opponents trackballs. Therefore playing keepaway will be difficult.

The best chance is to herd opponents trackballs whenever the chance presents itself. Basically, give it a shove in the wrong direction whenever you see it. This is slim pickings. It remains to be seen how the judges will view deliberately moving in front of herding robot.

/Jason

The definition of POSSESSION a trackball is quite clear, as well.

POSSESSION: Controlling the position and movement of a TRACKBALL while the TRACKBALL is
supported or captured by an ALLIANCE shall be considered POSSESSION of the TRACKBALL. A
TRACKBALL shall be considered “supported” by a ROBOT if in the estimation of a reasonably
astute observer the majority of the weight of the TRACKBALL is being borne by the ROBOT. A
TRACKBALL shall be considered “captured” by a ROBOT if, as the ROBOT moves or changes
orientation (e.g. backs up or spins in place), the TRACKBALL remains in approximately the same
position relative to the ROBOT. Both the “supported” and “captured” conditions include the case
where the TRACKBALL is also in contact with the floor.

So, if a team bumps a ball and it rolls away from them, they are considered HERDING and not in POSSESSION.

<G29> POSSESSING Opponent’s TRACKBALLS - ROBOTS may not be in the POSSESSION of a
TRACKBALL belonging to an opposing ALLIANCE. A PENALTY will be assigned for each
violation. HERDING of an opponent’s TRACKBALL and removing an opponent’s
TRACKBALL from the OVERPASS is permitted.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Trust me, If you think that there will be no defense this year, you are mistaken.
THis game is designed so that defense is going to be played at the same time as offense. Robots the are just boxes on wheels are going to be effective and i figure that they will be able to make or break a match in qualifying. There are teams that will make a strategy to play defense and be VERY effective.

[Zyik]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

Trust me, If you think that there will be no defense this year, you are mistaken.
THis game is designed so that defense is going to be played at the same time as offense. Robots the are just boxes on wheels are going to be effective and i figure that they will be able to make or break a match in qualifying. There are teams that will make a strategy to play defense and be VERY effective.

Thankfully FIRST made it so that this year a box on wheels can still score. This should encourage rookie teams who don't have the know-how/experience/resources to build a more complex robot.

If you have a robot that takes a while to pick up a trackball an opposing robot, say... a box on wheels... could "bump to pass" just enough to make them have to realign themselves again, while the box on wheels keeps going around the track, scoring points. Hopefully the robot doesn't take to long to position them selves and grab the trackball or the box on wheels could keep this up the whole match, while scoring points for their alliance.

[Sunshine]

Defense now becomes much more challenging after Update 2

[IbleedPink233]

Originally Posted by Sunshine

Defense now becomes much more challenging after Update 2

I don't see how it is harder, unless you planned on aggressively attacking your opponents' Trackball while they were Hurdling.

Our team has discussed defense and I think that the rules have been laid out to encourage teamwork (sharing balls with your allies) and discourage heavy defense (an improvement over last year, where slamming a robot into the Rack, often entangling it, was just fine - I never saw it called).
Defnitely, the defense this year will be way more creative this year than last year, where the push-the-robot-halfway-across-the-field-and-never-stop strategy was the one that was the only truely effective one (at least, the only widely used effective one).
In my brief experience as a base driver during off-seasons, it is way more fun to play effective defense than it is to score because it is a mental challenge between you and your opponent.
We will have to see how the game turns out - as it could be in any number of ways, but I definitely foresee a copious amount of defense (you have to have at least one ally without a Trackball do something) even if it is not really intense. A lot also rests in the hands of the Referees, of course.

[Spiders]

heres a semi-stupid question are you allowed to pick up the opposing teams ball and launch it backwards?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Spiders

heres a semi-stupid question are you allowed to pick up the opposing teams ball and launch it backwards?

That's possession, so no.

You may, however, simply knock it backwards.

[brentmcjunkin]

whoever said there is no defence this year is stupid there are actually some good defecive teams out there

[SL8]

Originally Posted by brentmcjunkin

whoever said there is no defence this year is stupid there are actually some good defecive teams out there

Please do not insult or attack people in your post. The"whoever said there is no defence this year is stupid " was completely unnecesary. And Good syntax does help convey your message.

Yes, there are good "defective" robots out there, but then, they are no longer so defective.

[jayjaywalker3]

Did anyone see the defense in the elimination rounds at the NYC regional? The semifinal matches in particular (the ones with team 694). They were amazingly aggressive and were not flagged at all in the first match and not very much in the third match.

[Jonathan Norris]

I have a funny felling that this year is going to be alot like '05 where yes you could play some defense if you wanted to, but the opportunity for penalties is just too high. It really just depends on how the refs manage the game and basically outlaw any major interaction with scoring robots.

[Madison]

I think, perhaps with the sole exception of overt contact of a hurdling robot, defense is completely proper and viable.

I mentioned in another thread the potential, with <G36> absent, to erect a wall in front of or behind your opponent's overpass such that hurdling is impossible. Coupled with a drive that allowed you to move sideways, you could become very effective at blocking hurdling attempts while never contacting the opposing robots at all. I cannot imagine how at any time contact initiated by their robot could result in a penalty upon your team. That notion is ludicrous.

Further, despite rules about "bumping to pass," there are no specific prohibitions against gently escorting robots in one direction or another. I understand and appreciate that there are rules governing behavior in attempts to pass on the field, but those rules do not preclude me from having no intention to pass and acting accordingly.

I think we'll see more defense than a lot of folks think, but I don't know that there are many viable strategies that for defense that might require a robot design different than something designed to score.