Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs

[Steve W]

As has been stated many times: build the robot to be robust. That includes a flag holder.

As for will the laps be counted IF the counter is removed by accident, The only way to know the exact laps would be to count manually as they did the balls in the lower goals a few years ago. Then again there was arguments that the people counting miss counted and made mistakes. I guess there is no perfect solution just a best one.

[jrdude]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I'd be more worried about the Tackball smashing the robot.

i am somewhat worried about this

[chapmatr]

Originally Posted by Steve W

As has been stated many times: build the robot to be robust. That includes a flag holder.

As for will the laps be counted IF the counter is removed by accident, The only way to know the exact laps would be to count manually as they did the balls in the lower goals a few years ago. Then again there was arguments that the people counting miss counted and made mistakes. I guess there is no perfect solution just a best one.

Firstly, I wanna say that it's not the holder I was worried about more than the flag.

Second, I assume that counting laps should be easier, considering you can't get more than one lap per second, nevermind 10 at a time like with the Aim High challenge.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

It would have been interesting if they had ditched the flag holder and simply required teams to show up with two different sets of bumpers... one red, one blue.

That would have done a better job of indicating alliances, encouraged fast-change bumper design (even more so than already encouraged) and allowed more space for handling this gianormous ball.

Mind you, at least we're all working to the same parameters... and the different coloured bumpers wouldn't make provisions for the lane counter, which will matter, I think.

J

This is probably what refs will wish for teams to have. Being able to tell a team's alliance by any fast glance will help them 30 times over in the case something needs to be called.

There should be a petition that calls for teams to design interchangeable colored bumpers for the sake of our refs since this is their toughest game too.

[SprocketGuy]

Does anyone know if it's possible to mount the flag holder at a 45 degree angle. The mount would stay within the allowed dimensions but the flag would stick out the back. This is the only way our team can see mounting the flag without hitting it every launch we make.
Or, are you allowed to put the flag on a spring mount that will bounce out of the way on impact and return to it's rest position?
Thoughts?

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by SprocketGuy

Does anyone know if it's possible to mount the flag holder at a 45 degree angle. The mount would stay within the allowed dimensions but the flag would stick out the back. This is the only way our team can see mounting the flag without hitting it every launch we make.
Or, are you allowed to put the flag on a spring mount that will bounce out of the way on impact and return to it's rest position?
Thoughts?

Originally Posted by <R17>

The flag holder must be permanently mounted to the ROBOT such that when the ROBOT is in any PLAYING CONFIGURATION and the FLAG is in the flag holder, the FLAG is approximately vertical and the top of the FLAG is 75 inches above the floor.

Mounting at an angle doesn't sound legit. The question is what "permanently" is supposed to mean. The picture next to <R17> refers to it as a "hard mount", but that text doesn't actually appear in the rule. 1114 had a flag holder that was able to move last year, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would pass muster this year.

[ALIBI]

With all the trouble that teams have been having keeping their trackballs intact, rules limiting protrusions that could become puncture or impalement hazards, rules requiring radii on corners etc. I just find it ironic that the field personel will be giving us all a spear (Flag) at the begining of a match that must be mounted permanently in an approximatley vertical position. I would like to see the GDC better define "approximately vertical". The +/- five inches from the required 51" height of the top of the flag holder could give you quite a bit of back and forth motion if say the flag holder was secured via a spring from the bottom, much like a bicycle flag, and maintained a height of 56" when vertical. It seems that mounting it with a spring would also make it much less of a puncture hazard for the trackball. I have not done the math, but at the maximum height the flag may also contract the over pass. I am not sure if that would affect the scoring mechanisms ability to read your lap indicator if the indicator was moving around a lot.

[MrForbes]

the design height of the flag of 75" plus the 5" tolerance adds up to 80" which is the design height of the bottom of the overpass.

I think....

[JesseK]

The flags themselves better be made out of titanium or they'll bend/snap when a trackball hit them. Personally I'd rather design the flag pole into the robot such that the flag itself helps shield our robot from a potential trackball impact, but I think most people would agree that the intent is non-GP. So I guess we're just stuck with a roll-cage that goes all the way up to 45-56" ...

[Racer26]

1075 isn't much liking the flag this year... the holder is trivial... Did anyone ever find out from the GDC if a spring loaded flag is acceptable?

[Wayne Doenges]

On our robot (Phoenix) we have the flag mounted on a 12" pivot. 500ms before we fire, the flag moves out of the way. After firing it moves back to its pre-launch position to keep it from being broken by passing robots. In our videos you can see the flag in the launch position. Our programmers didn't have the pivot programmed in yet.
It works great.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

1075 isn't much liking the flag this year... the holder is trivial... Did anyone ever find out from the GDC if a spring loaded flag is acceptable?

This was answered by the GDC last week.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8285

[Racer26]

that Q&A response doesnt really say you cant use a 'spring-loaded' mount, such that when not being impacted by a ball, the holder is vertical.

EDIT: found one that says they want it approximately vertical the entire time... much as it seems silly to me, because to have it rigidly mounted in a vertical position will result in launched trackballs being able to hit it. This may result in the launching/breaking of flags. A spring loaded mount would surely be safer.

[Curt Henderson]

I think the above statement is looking for a grey area of the rule where the Q&A Answer says "can not be".

I believe the rule is very clear, "Must Be" and "in any playing configuration" are very clear terms in our teams view of the rules, hence our decision to mount the flag holder the way we did.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

So far, I have yet to see a flag/flagholder broken by the trackball.