Hybrid mode?

[Mrtrom]

can someone fully explain hybrid mode to me, it's my first year and i have no idea

[marypim]

Hybrid mode is where your robot runs almost entirely in autonomous, but you can have a "Robocoach" who is a person with an IR Remote (Like one from a TV) who can send 4 top level commands to the Robot to control it (For example: Turn left, get ball, stop, etc...)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mrtrom

can someone fully explain hybrid mode to me, it's my first year and i have no idea

Used to be, the match just started in teleop mode (1992-2002). Then, the GDC introduced autonomous mode, where the robot is controlled by onboard sensors and programming only--no driver input (2003-2007). Now, they have changed auto mode to hybrid mode--the Robocoach (who takes the place of the Human Player) has a limited command set that he/she can send to the robot. The robot must still use only internal programming, but the Robocoach can tell it what to do in the programming. This can by via IR, sound, or light, or any other means that fits within the rules.

[Justin M.]

Some people on my team were misunderstanding it. Hybrid mode actually allows you to semi-fully control your robot with the right programming.

Example:

Channel 1 = Drive Forward
Channel 2 = Turn Left
Channel 3 = Turn Right
Channel 4 = Raise Arm, etc

You can then program the robot to cancel the program by pressing the program's assigned button a second time.

With this setup, you can completely control your robot in hybrid mode. You can press button 1 to drive forward, button 4 to raise arm, button 2 or 3 to turn left/right to align with a trackball, then knock one off for the 12 point bonus. You can also press button 1 a second time to stop, or button 2/3 to turn more or less left/right.

I just wish it wasn't with IR and was with something a bit more reliable. I like this better than autonomous mode though. There's a slight bit of human interaction, no messing with timing, CMU cams, etc.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Justin M.

I just wish it wasn't with IR and was with something a bit more reliable. I like this better than autonomous mode though. There's a slight bit of human interaction, no messing with timing, CMU cams, etc.

Why do you think that Hybrid Mode is "just with IR"?

The IR received has been provided to teams as an EXAMPLE technology. It is not a REQUIRED technology. There is nothing in the rules to prevent you from using other technologies to communicate your four commands to the robot during Hybrid Mode. If you have a preference for a different technology (that is within the rules, e.g. no lasers) then go ahead and use it!

-dave

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Justin M.

Some people on my team were misunderstanding it. Hybrid mode actually allows you to semi-fully control your robot with the right programming.

Example:

Channel 1 = Drive Forward
Channel 2 = Turn Left
Channel 3 = Turn Right
Channel 4 = Raise Arm, etc

You can then program the robot to cancel the program by pressing the program's assigned button a second time.

With this setup, you can completely control your robot in hybrid mode. You can press button 1 to drive forward, button 4 to raise arm, button 2 or 3 to turn left/right to align with a trackball, then knock one off for the 12 point bonus. You can also press button 1 a second time to stop, or button 2/3 to turn more or less left/right.

I just wish it wasn't with IR and was with something a bit more reliable. I like this better than autonomous mode though. There's a slight bit of human interaction, no messing with timing, CMU cams, etc.

Per other discussions here, most folks have determined this is illegal. You cannot have the button change program state, or toggle function. You can not have the action performed change each time the button is pushed. You can not send multi-button messages to include other commands.

There are four buttons, and they can only do four discrete things. Please see the other discussions or use the search function for the pertinent rules.

[Rich Wong]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Per other discussions here, most folks have determined this is illegal. You cannot have the button change program state, or toggle function. You can not have the action performed change each time the button is pushed. You can not send multi-button messages to include other commands.

There are four buttons, and they can only do four discrete things. Please see the other discussions or use the search function for the pertinent rules.

Tom,
I tend not to believe everything I read on CD and I would recommend doublechecking the game rules.
I think Justin was trying his best to explain the possible options with the remote control.

And I can't find the HYBRID PERIOD restriction you mention.
Do you know the rule #?

[Tom Line]

I don't really want to turn this thread into the other thread, but I'll copy the rules and then link to the other discussion:

Originally Posted by Manual 7.3.2 and 7.3.6
<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD. The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.

<G49> ROBOCOACH Signaling – If the ROBOCOACH will be providing signals to the ROBOT, then prior to the start of each MATCH the ROBOCOACH must place a Signaling Card in the ROBOCOACH STATION. The Signaling Card shall be a 3-inch by 5-inch card listing the one to four actions that can be commanded by the ROBOCOACH.

Originally Posted by Section 8.3.8
<R65> SIGNALING DEVICES shall be designed to communicate signals from the ROBOCOACH to the ROBOT. SIGNALING DEVICES are excluded from Rule <R64>. SIGNALING DEVICES shall:
• use either passive (no emission of any electromagnetic radiation) or active (emits some restricted form of electromagnetic radiation) means of communication
• be hand held and completely supported by the ROBOCOACH when operated
• does not attach to anything or anyone other than the ROBOCOACH
• exclusively receives input from, and is operated by, the ROBOCOACH
• not receive any input or feedback directly from the ROBOT (the ROBOCOACH may receive feedback from the ROBOT and use it to control the SIGNALING DEVICE)
• be no larger than 3 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep (to fit within the confined volume of the ROBOCOACH STATION
• remain entirely within the ROBOCOACH STATION
• use a maximum of four different inputs from the ROBOCOACH (e.g. use four different buttons) during any single MATCH
• communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.

End of <R65>
not use changes in the signal states to encode or transmit larger messages (e.g. Morse code)

Tried to give the credit to the people who posted them already.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=60884

[Justin M.]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

I don't really want to turn this thread into the other thread, but I'll copy the rules and then link to the other discussion:

Originally Posted by Manual 7.3.2 and 7.3.6
<G01> HYBRID PERIOD - The HYBRID PERIOD is the 15-second period at the start of the MATCH. Driver control of the ROBOT is not permitted at this time. During this period, the ROBOTS may react only to sensor inputs and commands programmed into the onboard control system. The only external signals that may be received by the ROBOT are those sent from ALLIANCE ROBOCOACHES. No external signals are permitted from any other source. The ROBOT may react to no more than four distinct external commands provided by the ROBOCOACH. All ROBOT safety rules are still applicable during the HYBRID PERIOD. The HYBRID PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds left in the period.

<G49> ROBOCOACH Signaling – If the ROBOCOACH will be providing signals to the ROBOT, then prior to the start of each MATCH the ROBOCOACH must place a Signaling Card in the ROBOCOACH STATION. The Signaling Card shall be a 3-inch by 5-inch card listing the one to four actions that can be commanded by the ROBOCOACH.

Originally Posted by Section 8.3.8
<R65> SIGNALING DEVICES shall be designed to communicate signals from the ROBOCOACH to the ROBOT. SIGNALING DEVICES are excluded from Rule <R64>. SIGNALING DEVICES shall:
• use either passive (no emission of any electromagnetic radiation) or active (emits some restricted form of electromagnetic radiation) means of communication
• be hand held and completely supported by the ROBOCOACH when operated
• does not attach to anything or anyone other than the ROBOCOACH
• exclusively receives input from, and is operated by, the ROBOCOACH
• not receive any input or feedback directly from the ROBOT (the ROBOCOACH may receive feedback from the ROBOT and use it to control the SIGNALING DEVICE)
• be no larger than 3 feet tall by 3 feet wide by 1 foot deep (to fit within the confined volume of the ROBOCOACH STATION
• remain entirely within the ROBOCOACH STATION
• use a maximum of four different inputs from the ROBOCOACH (e.g. use four different buttons) during any single MATCH
• communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single MATCH.

End of <R65>
not use changes in the signal states to encode or transmit larger messages (e.g. Morse code)

Tried to give the credit to the people who posted them already.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=60884

I don't see why the example I posted is illegal according to those rules. I'll give you the stop function through multiple pressing of the button, but everything else seems legal.

I'll check the other thread for reference.

[lukevanoort]

I wouldn't say toggling in hybrid is illegal just yet. IMHO, this falls into a gray area, and must go to the Q&A for clarification. I can see it as being both legal and illegal; a toggle is one command, and the robot is obeying one command with one action, 'toggle,' but, one can also say that this is dynamically changing the command of one button (drive and stop). People could probably sit at their computers for eternity arguing over which is the correct interpretation and still not come to a definite conclusion.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Why do you think that Hybrid Mode is "just with IR"?

The IR received has been provided to teams as an EXAMPLE technology. It is not a REQUIRED technology. There is nothing in the rules to prevent you from using other technologies to communicate your four commands to the robot during Hybrid Mode. If you have a preference for a different technology (that is within the rules, e.g. no lasers) then go ahead and use it!
-dave

Ummm...
That just opened up a whole new can of worms.

I suddenly feel overwhelmed this year just from that one simple post. lol

I guess that's because I don't have an "electrical background" per-say, but up until that point I was semi-confident of my robotics knowledge being involved with this program for what is my 8th year this year.

With that said, I won't ask you specifically Dave even though you seem to have some inside knowledge on the issue, but more towards the CD community...

What are some other forms of remote communication (AKA: Signaling device) we are allowed by the rules to use this year other than IR types?

[Justin M.]

Basically what I meant by saying "just IR" is the fact that I've had bad experiences with it. It drops out frequently. We've all seen it, TV remotes.....

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

Ummm...
That just opened up a whole new can of worms.

I suddenly feel overwhelmed this year just from that one simple post. lol

I guess that's because I don't have an "electrical background" per-say, but up until that point I was semi-confident of my robotics knowledge being involved with this program for what is my 8th year this year.

With that said, I won't ask you specifically Dave even though you seem to have some inside knowledge on the issue, but more towards the CD community...

What are some other forms of remote communication (AKA: Signaling device) we are allowed by the rules to use this year other than IR types?

Did everyone completely ignore the five-minute long demonstration during the kick-off broadcast??? Three fully functional, rules-compliant, effective methods for communicating with the robots were put right in front of you. And they are far from the only ways to accomplish the task. IR is certainly not the only way to utilize the ability to have the Robocoach send signals. You just have to think about the alternatives.

-dave


.

[Torboticsmember]

I was wondering for the commands, could they be like
press button 3 and the robot stops, moves an arm up, and opens a "claw" mechanism, then moves forward.
so there are multiple actions on one button or is that illegal

[Justin M.]

Originally Posted by Torboticsmember

I was wondering for the commands, could they be like
press button 3 and the robot stops, moves an arm up, and opens a "claw" mechanism, then moves forward.
so there are multiple actions on one button or is that illegal

To my understanding, yes, that is legal. You are allowed to communicate no more than 4 actions to the robot. I don't see why you can have 3 done by one channel, but that only leaves you with one action left.

You should make each channel do one task to make things easier, but if you technically have no more than 4 tasks done by the same channel, that appears to be legal.