Can you "flip" your robot to give you a 60" width?

[Beamer159]

I was wondering if it's legal to start your robot standing on its side, then somehow flip it after the match starts to give us a 60" maximum width.

[SuperJake]

So according to <G18>:

<G18> ROBOT Orientation - ROBOTS must start the MATCH with their long (maximum) dimension in a vertical orientation. After the start of the MATCH, ROBOTS may change their orientation such that the long dimension is either vertical or horizontal. Refer to Rule <R08> and Rule <R17> to determine how this affects the use of STANDARD BUMPERS and FLAGS.

So at first glance, you would be okay to flip over once the match started. But then after looking at <R08>, it looks like the bumpers can only be on the 28"x38" sides. It also says that at least 2/3 of the perimeter of your bot needs to use bumpers. With the bumper zone defined as 2-6" vertical from the floor, you wouldn't be able to adequately bumper your robot once it fell over to play the game.

Thoughts from other people?

[Matt C]

Keep in mind the requirement for the flag and flag holder.

[Ziaholic]

Originally Posted by Beamer159

I was wondering if it's legal to start your robot standing on its side, then somehow flip it after the match starts to give us a 60" maximum width.

Yes ... but you must then make sure you comply with the bumper rules in this configuration too

[Leav]

you have to start with the robot at 60" high and than flip it (you better do it slowly!!! ) so that you have 60" wide...

This would give you great stability and less chance that you robot would flip over (except that one time....) but good luck cornering!

<R11> Prior to the beginning of the MATCH, the ROBOT shall be placed in a STARTING
CONFIGURATION that fits within the dimensions listed below:
*Dimensions*
Any restraints (elastic bands, springs, etc.) that are used to restrain the ROBOT in its
STARTING CONFIGURATION must remain attached to the ROBOT for the duration of the
MATCH.

also check out <R16>

<R16> Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that
exceeds the size dimensions specified in Rule <R11>. While in the PLAYING
CONFIGURATION, the ROBOT may expand up to a maximum horizontal dimension of 80
inches (e.g. all parts of the ROBOT must fit within an imaginary 80-inch-diameter upright
cylinder). There are no height limits for a ROBOT in its PLAYING CONFIGURATION at any
time after the start of the MATCH.

so you need your robot to start in the dimension which specify height and than it could fall down to the playing configurations.

-Leav

[Alex.Norton]

ya you can do this, people have done it mutiple times in the past for several different reasons.

The best examples that I know of are:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/14204
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/21751

Alex

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Alex.Norton

ya you can do this, people have done it mutiple times in the past for several different reasons.

The best examples that I know of are:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/14204
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/21751

Alex

Just because it has been done in prior years, do not assume that you can do it this year. Remember - rules from prior games DO NOT apply to this year!

-dave

[VanMan]

Ya, that may be helpful, but our plan is perfect. If you got that to work properly for you that would be awesome.

[Leav]

I'm going to go ahead and have you file these TPS reports... errr... I ment go ahead and guess that one of two situations will occur:

Situation A:

you will need to build two sets of bumpers:
1)on the 28"X38" base.
2)on the "real" base of your robot in the playing configuration.

Or situation B:
My logic tells me you only need to place standard bumpers for each drive base, so if the robot can move in two different position you would need a standard bumper for each position, but not for positions where the robot can not move.
you run the risk that if your mechanism fails and you can't flip, and you don't have bumpers, other robots might hit you.




this is just my logic and not an official FIRST answer!

This is definitely something for the Q&A, just so we know how they want us to do this exactly.... (us=FIRSTers... my team isn't going for this design since we want the most height for the overpass hurdeling...)


-Leav

[Torboticsmember]

For about minutes today our team was thinking about "morphing" our robot. We would just kind of push the two sides out somehow then leave a space in the front. But we thought it would be too complicated to do. But you might be able to try that

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Leav

My logic tells me you only need to place standard bumpers for each drive base, so if the robot can move in two different position you would need a standard bumper for each position, but not for positions where the robot can not move.

Your logic agrees with what I see in the manual.

Originally Posted by <R08>

...STANDARD BUMPERS must remain within the BUMPER ZONE when the ROBOT is resting on the floor in PLAYING CONFIGURATION.

A "flop-bot" isn't automatically in PLAYING CONFIGURATION before it flops. Section 8.2 DEFINITIONS of the manual has this to say:

"PLAYING CONFIGURATION - The physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT while playing the game (i.e. after the MATCH has started, and the ROBOT has deployed mechanisms, moved away from the starting location, and/or interacted with the field, GAME PIECES, or other ROBOTS). This configuration is dynamic, and may change multiple times during the course of a single MATCH."

[ALIBI]

So, when you flip, your flag holder will stay up at 51 inches (R17), in other words, your robot will open up like a jacknife .