Beware of R16 your robot design may be too big.

[Dan Richardson]

R16 states that once the games starts a robot in its horizontal configuration can never be bigger than 80" More specifically all parts of your robot must fit within an 80" cylinder.

This is a pretty big rule once you think about it and do the math. If your robot is at maximum dimension ( 38x28 ) and you have your REQUIRED bumpers on, you can only reach a maximum of about 34" in front of your bot. All gripper designs that do not bring the ball inboard and reach around the entire ball would be illegal.

If you are planning to reach over the overpass while hurdling you better either start while underneath or not reach more than 3" past it. That includes your gripper.

Think about it, this rule is really quite limiting and if it's not reworded your gonna see a lot of people getting penalized for it.

I understand the intent, but if you have an arm that reaches in front of your bot basically at all, with a gripper that gets just beyond the radius of the ball then your very close to or already in violation of R16. Make sure you keep this in mind when designing your bots.

I think this will be one of the most broken rules this year and I really hope those that design within the rules aren't penalized for it by FIRST changing the rules late or refs not realizing how easy it is to break this rule and not calling it.

[GaryVoshol]

This is very restrictive for this year's game. Last year there was a 72x72" box, which works out to 102" on the diagonal. That's for a trivially thin robot though - in effect your arm could stick out about 38 or 40 inches in front of your robot. So this year, although the "grabbing target" of the game piece is nearly twice as large, you have about the same restriction on size.

[Dan Richardson]

You actually have something in the neighborhood or 7-8" less to grab a significantly larger and significantly heavier object, pretty much completely eliminates a simple arm for hurdling this year, unless your gripper is ridiculously short.

[AdamHeard]

I dont think the bumpers count for this rule.

[jgannon]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I dont think the bumpers count for this rule.

Could you quote that from the manual? I'm not seeing it... all I see is an exemption for <R11>.

[Zyik]

<R13> For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations specified in Rule <R11>, these items are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT included in the weight and volume assessment of the ROBOT:
• Any STANDARD BUMPER assemblies included on the ROBOT that are in
compliance with Rule <R08>, up to a maximum of 15 pounds

However, for all other purposes the items listed above are considered part of the ROBOT and must comply with all other applicable rules and requirements.

I think this means that bumpers don't count towards it.

Edit: you're right, I don't see it talking about R16 in here, just R11, I just assumed. Lets see if they give us a rules update.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Zyik

I think this means that bumpers don't count towards it.

However, for all other purposes the items listed above are considered part of the ROBOT and must comply with all other applicable rules and requirements.

Bumpers do count when considering rule <R16>.

[Lavapicker]

Remember this is a cylindrical measurement with no cap on how high up it goes. While you can't reach more than 80 inches outward, your upward reach is unlimited. According to R16, there are no height limits once the match has started.

[AdamHeard]

I stand corrected... Luckily we still fit.

[gburlison]

Originally Posted by Lavapicker

Remember this is a cylindrical measurement with no cap on how high up it goes. While you can't reach more than 80 inches outward, your upward reach is unlimited. According to R16, there are no height limits once the match has started.

Your entire robot must fit into the 80 inch cylinder including any arms. If you go back to Stud Man Dans post, you will see that you would only be able to reach about 34 inches max in front of a robot that has the long dimension (38in) on the side of the robot. Seems like there will be a lot of forklifts/elevators this year.

[vivek16]

That is crazy. I am going to have to do the math and draw things out to scale on this one.

thanks, Vivek

[lukevanoort]

It is a really small volume once you start working with it. I've been sitting here for a bit today just playing with a spreadsheet I whipped up that determines our robot's arm's length extending from our robot. It just figures out the length sticking out (it's a double jointed arm) in the two worst-case scenarios, and from that, determines roughly how much play we have left in the envelope. Let me just say that there is very little play.

[Paul Copioli]

This rule is very, very restrictive to robots trying to hurdle. This will be THE rule that has the most attention during the first week. We plan on bringing a 80" cylinder to St. Louis to show our robot fits in the volumne at all times .... that is if we can make a mechanism that actually works AND fits in the 80". Right now we can do one or the other, but not both.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

that is if we can make a mechanism that actually works AND fits in the 80". Right now we can do one or the other, but not both.

Somehow, I have faith in Paul's ability to crack this little problem and come up with a working solution that will - once again - knock our socks off. And if a bunch of folks with chickens on their shirts can do it...

-dave



.

[Kat Kononov]

<R13> For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations
specified in Rule <R11>, these items are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT
included in the weight and volume assessment of the ROBOT:
...
Any STANDARD BUMPER assemblies included on the ROBOT that are in
compliance with Rule <R08>, up to a maximum of 15 pounds,
...
However, for all other purposes the items listed above are considered part of the ROBOT
and must comply with all other applicable rules and requirements.

So, bumpers do count as part of the robot in <R16>. But, consider the fact that bumpers are only about 3in thick, and that you only need 2/3 of the robot covered with bumpers. Then, if you have a 38x28 robot, you can leave the back of the robot without bumpers, and thus only gain 3in in the front, not a whole 6in.