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Unread 13-01-2008, 17:06
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PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Well for a while now my team has been wanting to make a removable electronics board. Also for the past couple of weeks i have been trying to design a small one and have had many results. However to the point of the matter.

Why have removable electronics when the problems that could occur are so limited to a single part and not the whole entire board?

Please explain the pros and cons of this method.

Life itself has no removable board but is built around a structure
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Last edited by BlackShadowFox : 13-01-2008 at 17:09.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 17:34
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Fluffy,
Although I have seen removable assemblies, I have not seen any great advantage other than a possible need to get at mechanical systems underneath in a hurry. Almost all of them required more wire than a similar robot would have without the module.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 17:56
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Actually, we've had a fair bit of discussion and experience on this point.

For us what we found was...

PROS:
-If the board is removable, it's far easier to work on the board, say, to replace wires, reconnect wires, replace any components that might get fried, etc. than it is to do when you have to reach around inside the frame of the robot.
-When all the big electronic components are compacted together, the system is a lot easier to troubleshoot (by testing connectivity and voltages, and plugging and unplugging, etc.) and problems are a lot easier to diagnose than when components are spread out all over the robot
-It also becomes easier to organize wires and components when they're all compacted together.
-When the board can be removed and remain fully functional, one can do a very large amount of programming without actually needing the physical robot, meaning mechanical work on the robot and electrical/programming work can occur simultaneously and separately.

CONS:
-Obviously, not all programming can be done without the physical robot.
-When boards/boxes are used and care is not specifically taken to design the board around the robot, and to design the robot around the board, the board can be very, very difficult to remove.
-Once the board is built, it becomes very difficult to add new components after the fact. Thus, you can either allow a lot of extra room, wait to design the board until the last minute, or just design it and cross your fingers that you won't need more stuff later.
-With some designs (mostly just with a box design), it might actually be more difficult to get at some of the components.

That's about all that's coming to me at the moment, though there's probably a few more. Keep in mind that I am a proponent of the removable board design, so I'm probably a bit biased. Plus, considering the fact that no two teams are alike, what is a plus or minus for our team is not necessarily so for others.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 18:28
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

I can think of one major point in favor of a removable electronics subsystem: It makes creating prototype robots easier.

We have a couple of 2004 controllers that we use for such prototyping. Once we have things well underway this year, some of the students might find themselves with little to contribute as the flurry of fabrication and assembly comes to an end. I think I'll encourage some of them to design and build a "control system in a box" for use with demos and prototypes.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 19:21
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

If access to your mechanical systems underneath the electrical panel is your concern, you might want to consider a hinged electrical panel. It requires longer wires because all wires going off the board must routed through the hinge. However, you can remove one fastener and simply lift the electronics out of your way while keeping everything connected.

My team used a hinged electrical panel last year and in 2001.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 20:33
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

We used a tiered design last year, drive layer, electronics layer, manipulator layer. We liked it. Just a few connections to split the robot into three parts, each of which could be worked on concurrently. Saved us a lot of time. Just make sure your layer templates are accurate.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 22:27
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
I can think of one major point in favor of a removable electronics subsystem: It makes creating prototype robots easier.
Very true. In 2006, someone had the brilliant idea to put all the electronics into a craftsman toolbox. As awful an idea that might have been (and it was easily the worst idea we've ever actually gone through with) after a fair bit of overhauling it over the offseason, we have a completely functional electronics system to work with as of Day 1. We won't need to even use any of the new stuff for a few weeks.
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Unread 13-01-2008, 23:58
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShadowFox View Post
Why have removable electronics when the problems that could occur are so limited to a single part and not the whole entire board?
A Pro: sometimes you don't know what component has the problem. A removable board allows you to take a look at all of the components without the rest of the robot. One Con to the removable design is the problems with removing and reconnecting wires if your board is in a hard to reach place. Our team has had two designs that were removable, and one of them worked well. The other one we put under a support beam and it was very difficult to reach the Victor Speed Controllers to reconnect the wirses.
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Unread 14-01-2008, 00:19
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Since wire connections are a common source of problems, it seems to me it might be a "con" to have more connectors in the wires.

How do you remove the removable board? do you have to unscrew the motor wires from the victors? or disconnect an (additional) plug in connector? sounds like a hassle or an additional potential source of problems.

If you really can't design the robot to allow easy access to a fixed electronics board, then a removable board might be helpful. My suggestion is to try to make the electronics board accessible, so you don't have to move it to fix any problems that may occur in competition.

Also, you could design the board to be removable under non-competition conditions, such as to swap onto a prototype chassis or something. We did that with our promotional robot, we swiped the complete electronics board from it and got the new kitbot running very quickly.
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Unread 14-01-2008, 00:59
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

1625 tried to do an electronics box last year and it didn't work out very well for us. It was hard to reconnect wires that came unplugged, also it was excessively heavy. (If you do it right you won't have that problem) The other "con" was when ever you reached into the box to reset or program or whatever it always seemed like a PWM signal cable got bumped lose.

In my op opinion a permanent flat piece of lexan is nicer than a removable board.
(But thats just my opinion)
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Unread 14-01-2008, 09:37
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

If you remove your board, you don't get aluminum shavings into the parts while you are drilling your lightening holes.

Not that anyone would ever have an issue with weight late in the build season after everything is installed.
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Unread 14-01-2008, 11:28
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

In 2006, my team (830) tried to build a removable electronics box. We had some experience with that, as we'd done it before (and won an award for it!). Unfortunately, our electronics were a lot more complicated that year, and with all the connections required to hook it up, it wasn't really removable anymore. It was also in a really hard place to get to... needless to say, working on the electronics was not fun!
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Unread 14-01-2008, 12:21
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

116 has been using removable electronics since the summer of 2004. In 2005 it was a key component in 116 winning the Xerox Creativity Award (Chesapeake), and in 2006 it was a key factor in 116 winning the Innovation in Control Award (Peachtree).

The biggest advantage was the ability to remove the electronics and work on them independently from the rest of the robot. It's quite often in the pits where some work is needed on the mechanical system and the electrical system at the same time, and the ability to remove the electronics makes it much easier as the workers won't interfere with each other as they work. Being able to work on the mechanical and electrical system simultaneously speeds up your ability to repair and modify the robot greatly.
There are several other ways it helps too. The ability to remove the electronics also means that there won't ever be a piece buried somewhere in your robot that really isn't accessible (ie that one spike that always ends up buried underneath a gearbox). You also don't have to work struggle to work through the mechanical systems to trace wires, test voltages, etc.

There are a few cons, namely that you have to buy more expensive connectors and it typically adds some weight (although, if done right, it is negligible).

My experiences with removable electronics has been very positive, and I'd highly recommend them to any team who's mastered basic electronics.
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Unread 14-01-2008, 12:29
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Re: PROS and CONS of Removable Electronics

Sean has covered how I feel. 118 has had removable electronics since 2005 and in 2007 it proved very useful when problems with the PDB or something else on the controls plate would occur. I wasn't really even rushed at some points as I would have been if I was working on the robot directly and was able to spend half an hour and sometimes even more time on replacing certain components.

If you decide that a modular control panel is right for you, than I suggest you pick accessible places to put your connectors so that whenever you put the plate back into the robot you can easily see what is going on instead of having to feel for it.

If you do it right you won't add too much weight and although it may be a bit more expensive and heavy, but it works well and adds a nice clean look to the finished product.

If you have any more questions I'll be more than happy to answer them.
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