Hybrid mode question.

[ks_mumupsi]

I had a quick question on Hybrid mode. I know when someone asked on FIRST about knocking opponents ball off and this was the response:

Knocking an opponent's Trackball off the Overpass before the end of the Match would prevent them from collecting the 12-point bonus. But if the Trackball is knocked "forward" and as a result it completes a Hurdle, then the opponent will receive 8 points.


My question is in hybrid mode if you knock your ball off the overpass do you recieve 8 points for knocking the ball off and another 8 for a completed hurdle or only 8 pts??

Thanks in advance.

Edited: pts were wrong its 8 pts for knocking off in hybrid not 12.

[GaryVoshol]

You get 8 points [each] for your Alliance ball(s) being off the Overpass at the end of Hybrid.

You get 12 points [each] if your Alliance ball(s) is/are on the Overpass at the end of the game.

They are mutually exclusive events, except that if the ball is knocked off, then it has to put it back up to get both sets of points.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by ks_mumupsi

My question is in hybrid mode if you knock your ball off the overpass do you recieve 12 points for knocking the ball off and another 8 for a completed hurdle or only 12 pts??

A "completed hurdle" needs to start hurdling first. <G12> says the trackball must cross a lane marker before it can earn any points by hurdling or crossing the finish line. So removing the trackball from the overpass at the beginning of the match does not earn any points for hurdling.

The only way for a trackball to earn 12 points is to be supported by the overpass (and not be touching a robot of its alliance) at the end of the match. <G09> says a trackball earns 8 points for being off the overpass at the end of the hybrid period.

[Capt. Quirk]

In hybrid mode you recieve 8 points for knocking a trackball off the overpass. There wasn't anything said about hurdling durring hybrid mode.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Capt. Quirk

In hybrid mode you recieve 8 points for knocking a trackball off the overpass. There wasn't anything said about hurdling durring hybrid mode.

Look at the score table. Though I think it should be worth a lot more than 8 points, maybe 16...

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by EricH

Look at the score table. Though I think it should be worth a lot more than 8 points, maybe 16...

No it isn't. Look at the table. See that line directly above it that says "Scoring opportunities and point values are summarized in the table below"? Now read the rules (particularly <G12>) carefully. The rules are pretty clear. The summary table is just that - a summary. Don't assume that it contains every detail and nuance of the rules.

-dave

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dlavery

No it isn't. Look at the table. See that line directly above it that says "Scoring opportunities and point values are summarized in the table below"? Now read the rules (particularly <G12>) carefully. The rules are pretty clear. The summary table is just that - a summary. Don't assume that it contains every detail and nuance of the rules.

-dave

So fix it, Dave. Nothing says that a robot can't do a lap with a trackball in Hybrid and then hurdle while still in Hybrid. The table is a summary, yes, but it does say that a hurdle in hybrid mode is 8 points. Nothing else says different. (<G11> has no restrictions on mode.)

I was stating my personal opinion that it should be (not is) worth more, for the simple reason that any team that can go all the way around while retrieving a trackball and then hurdle it before time runs out is deserving of an extra bonus.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by EricH

So fix it, Dave. Nothing says that a robot can't do a lap with a trackball in Hybrid and then hurdle while still in Hybrid. The table is a summary, yes, but it does say that a hurdle in hybrid mode is 8 points. Nothing else says different. (<G11> has no restrictions on mode.)

There is nothing to fix. Rule <G12> is quite clear. The fact that <G11> does not list all possible restrictions does not invalidate <G12>. Q.E.D.




.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by dlavery

There is nothing to fix. Rule <G12> is quite clear. The fact that <G11> does not list all possible restrictions does not invalidate <G12>. Q.E.D.




.

Remember, Dave, I did say it was possible for a trackball to be carried/herded across a lane marker in auto mode. If a team can somehow do that (won't be mine, I'm pretty sure), then they can get the 8 points for a hurdle in Hybrid, assuming they can do it on their own overpass within the time limit (and use the legal number of Robocoach commands). That is how I interpret <G11> and <G12> together. If the GDC interprets it differently, then I am in error, but I would also like to know how it would be interpreted.

(Something tells me that team 71 has already completed a robot that can do this twice per hybrid mode.)

[Capt. Quirk]

Dave,

Since you are watching this thread, I am concerned with Rule <G40> from the second update.

A robot could impede the flow of traffic while knocking down a TrackBall and then stay in place untill time is up or do it so slow that the process requires nearly 15 sec.

If 2 TrackBalls of the same color end up being paired together an alliance could effectivly block the lane by just taking their sweet time.

?? Is it possible to add a rule to require the robot that knocks the Trackball off the Overpass, must also compltely cross it's finish line in order for the 8 point bonus to count??.

Bill

[Capt. Quirk]

Originally Posted by EricH

Remember, Dave, I did say it was possible for a trackball to be carried/herded across a lane marker in auto mode. If a team can somehow do that (won't be mine, I'm pretty sure), then they can get the 8 points for a hurdle in Hybrid,

If I read the rules correctly, their are no points given for either of those abilities in Hybrid mode.

[ks_mumupsi]

Sorry for the pts error. But ya the point was really to just see if that would be a hurdle.

Thanks for your responses.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Capt. Quirk

If I read the rules correctly, their are no points given for either of those abilities in Hybrid mode.

Herding, yes. However, <G11> makes no distinction between modes. If no distinction is given, then none exists. (This may be due to time limits, but still, there is no distinction.) Therefore, you can get hurdling points in hybrid if the trackball has crossed one of the other lines on the field.

[Capt. Quirk]

Wow, I missed that one.

But it seemes like the rabbit still has the advantage.