Tossing Vs. Dropping

[=Martin=Taylor=]

This has been discussed here and there in other threads but I think we need a new thread addressing this debate specifically.

The way I see it, there are only two hurdling strategies: Lift it up, or toss if over.

1) Do you think it is possible to toss the trackball?
2) Do you think many teams will succeed at doing it?
3) What are the pros and cons of tossing?
4) What are the pros and cons of lifting?
5) What are the greatest technical challenges to overcome for both strategies?

I’ll start:

1) Yes, I’ll echo what others have said and say that FIRSTers will always find a way!

2) No, I believe the majority of teams will realize the difficulty of designing a device to toss the trackball and will choose to pursue other strategies. I predict that the handful of teams that DO decide to take on this challenge will realize the difficulty and have the technical know-how to make it work.

3)Pros:
Theoretically, a robot that could toss the ball and quickly pick it up again would be able to score at crazian-beattypoof speeds. Said robot could toss the ball over the overpass and pick it up seconds after it hit the ground. I think teams that can BOTH quickly pick-up and shoot the track ball will dominate this years game.

Cons:
Very few teams will be able to BOTH pick up and toss quickly. The way I see it, picking up these horribly bouncy balls (remember they have been dropped 6.5’) will be a great challenge in itself. After building a complex device to throw the ball many teams will skimp on the pick-up mechanism.
Another con is that these robots will probably not be able to place the ball on the overpass for bonus points. From my analysis I don’t think the end of game bonus points will be that important (you only get 2 more points than hurdling + crossing finish). Then again, end of game points have been important every year except 2005…

4) Pros:
I think this is the “safe” way to play this game. You probably won’t be able to score as fast as a good tosser/catcher, but if you design your robot to lift, chances are you will at least score a couple hurdles a match.

Cons:
Isn’t as fast as tossing.
Robots that use this strategy are also going to be more top-heavy, which means they won’t be able to take the turns as fast.
SOME designs will have trouble getting the ball OVER the overpass. Getting it up is only half the challenge. Getting it OVER is another…

5) Tossing:
Figuring out a way to launch the ball over 6.5’ feet and do it SAFLEY. By safely, I mean the robot won’t destroy itself OR its builders.

Lifting:
Figuring out a way to keep the CG low, and staying within the 80” diameter circle.

[Travis Hoffman]

I know one con about tossing - is it possible for partner bots to receive the trackball when it's chucked in such a manner?

Those who design bots who can reach back and receive the trackball from the hurdler right at the overpass probably aren't going to put their arm/gripper in harm's way of a 10 lb. ball hurtling through the air at some rather energetic velocity.

Not having a receiving bot for such tossed trackballs will thus guarantee they will bounce on the ground and scurry off somewhere, so your alliance has to waste time tracking it down.

I'd prefer the controlled exchange of 2 robots with arms who can hurdle together quickly and efficiently, keeping their ball in the possession of one of the partner bots at all times.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Another con is that these robots will probably not be able to place the ball on the overpass for bonus points. From my analysis I don’t think the end of game bonus points will be that important (you only get 2 more points than hurdling + crossing finish). Then again, end of game points have been important every year except 2005…

While it may be difficult, it's certainly possible to get the ball to stay up there after tossing it. They sink nicely into the holes. Also, one advantage of the endgame is that it can be anywhere on the overpass, whereas to hurdle, you must be at your own finish line. That's half-lap difference can be big

[gizzlyMIKE000]

team 1516 also thought that were could toss the ball from a low heigth but thwn we realized that we could lift the ball with a lift to around 5 feet to it is still stable then punch it off with a pnenatic punch to a higth of around 7-8 feet but we just besided of herding lol darn but we are still going to keep doing prototypes

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by gizzlyMIKE000

team 1516 also thought that were could toss the ball from a low heigth but thwn we realized that we could lift the ball with a lift to around 5 feet to it is still stable then punch it off with a pnenatic punch to a higth of around 7-8 feet but we just besided of herding lol darn but we are still going to keep doing prototypes

Just remember that if your lifting a ball thats around 7-10 lbs in the air your center of gravity is going to be very high. You need to wath for the punch not tipping over your robot int he process, the punch that is needed to lift the ball 3 ft. would be enough to tip your bot if its not built to withstand it. Just throwing it out there