Help, I'm a world class computer programming genius yet I'm totally lost.

[ShotgunNinja]

Originally Posted by jratcliff

...I have written a couple of best selling computer games for Electronic Arts, shipped games on numerous platforms and microprocessors, and more recently was the lead engine programmer for the massively multi player online game 'Planetside' for Sony Online Entertainment...

Sorry for getting off-topic for a sec, but A PROFESSIONAL GAME PROGRAMMER, OH MY GOD. That is my LIFELONG DREAM.

You said you've worked for Electronic Arts? What's it like, as a game programmer? I've done some fiddling around with the Source Engine code, and I am trying to get a game project off the ground. Any tips? Things to watch out for? Reasons why Wisconsin is not a good place for game programmers?

[Steve_Alaniz]

I went to the Microchip site and downloaded the zip file with MPLAB 8.01. No errors. I tried installing it. Also no errors and the application launched just fine. If you're getting CRC errors, I wouldn't use it. You should have gotten a Disc in the FIRST kit of parts and I'd advise finding that instead of downloading from the Microchip site. ALSO, in previous years, we were warned to only use MPLAB ver 7.20 and C18 Compiler ver 2.40. Not sure if that still applies.
Anyone else know?
Anyway, I'd really recommend using the kit of parts disc since it will have the correct version and you shouldn't have the CRC problem using that.

I looked at Easy C. last year... I agree with you. I think a program like easy C is needed, but right now, Easy C could stand a little tweaking. Just my opinion.


Steve

Originally Posted by jratcliff

Thanks all for the excellent advice. I have been reading documentation today and I think I have a handle on the flow of control now.

I did run into one weird problem, I wonder if anyone else is having. I tried downloading the latest version of the MPLAB-IDE from the microchip website and every time I download any version I get CRC errors when I try to unzip the file. Has anyone else experienced this?

To answer a few points that were raised in the thread.

(1) I am mentoring a total of six students on our FRC team in programming. I spent four hours giving them a one on one training course on Saturday; these were all Freshmen with little to no programming experience with the exception of my son.

(2) My son is really interested in taking a leadship position on the team. He has been programming for quite some time and is really excited about contributing not just this year, but in years to come. My personal goal is to give him enough experience working with the VEX robot at home that he can be much more involved on the FRC project at school. The robotics club meets frequently but with my work schedule the only time I can make available is on Saturday.

(3) The reason I am focusing on MPLAB and C, rather than Easy C, is because that is easier for me personally at this time. I'm sure the youth will have opportunities to be exposed to the Easy C paradigm at future events throughout the year. However, in the short term, it is much easier for me to just program in native C code since that is a high iteration cycle path. Yesterday I felt a bit lost in all of the acronyms but a morning of reading yet more documentation is going a long way towards getting me up to speed.

Thanks all for the help getting started, it is my hope that I will be of assistance to the general FRC community in years to come and I certainly want to help mentor students in the St. Louis area after this season has completed.

Thanks,

John & Alex

[Lafleur]

This is a good reference to the odd PIC things along with the current datasheet on the 18F8722 that you can download from Microchip...

Applying PIC18 Microcontrollers: Architecture, Programming, and Interfacing using C and Assembly by Dr Barry B. Brey from DeVry University..

Takes you from knowing nothing to full development in Microchip "C". Very well organize and full of complete examples on I/O and Interrupts.

Recommend for both new and older programmers...

ISBN: 0-13-088546-0, over 500 pages and a bit pricey at $112

authors page: http://members.ee.net/brey/p10.htm

[kaszeta]

Originally Posted by jratcliff

It sounds like I have about six weeks of documentation to read at this point with only four weeks left to completion!! It's clear to me now that FIRST does not really expect any robotics teams to build a robot from ground zero in six weeks; the learning curve simply to read documentation is quite steep even for a professional in the industry much less a high school student.

It is daunting for a new team, but it's also important not to lose focus. IFI and Kevin Watson have both provided code that essentially distills programming the robot into having to supply a handful of functions, with a fairly well-defined set of input and output variables. If you start simple and build your way up, it's pretty easy to get at least a basic robot implemented (our first year with the new C system, 2004, we managed to assemble a full controller with PID controls, shaft encoders, and a realtime clock, and that was with one mentor (myself) with decent programming experience and three students who had only done visual BASIC programming).

The other thing to remember is that there are a lot of good resources out there for new teams to use. You're visiting one of the better ones (ChiefDelphi). Look at the whitepapers. Read the forums. Ask questions. We're here to help you out. There are few problems you can run into where someone here can't help you out, and quickly.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Steve_Alaniz

You should have gotten a Disc in the FIRST kit of parts and I'd advise finding that instead of downloading from the Microchip site. ALSO, in previous years, we were warned to only use MPLAB ver 7.20 and C18 Compiler ver 2.40. Not sure if that still applies.
Anyone else know?
Anyway, I'd really recommend using the kit of parts disc since it will have the correct version and you shouldn't have the CRC problem using that.

Yes we're still restricted to using MPLAB 7.20 and C18 2.4, unless you're using Kevin Watson's Beta C18 3.0+ code, which I'm not sure I'd recommend to a first time FRC programmer, as it might still have bugs and the C18 3.10 compiler is high conservative about interrupt handlers and could easily bog down your code if you're not careful. So yes, I would strongly recommend just installing the version of MPLAB off the CD in the kit. You'll need those specific versions anyways if you want to work with Vex, as Kevin W. hasn't updated the Vex starter code to be 3.10 compatible yet.

[jratcliff]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Yes we're still restricted to using MPLAB 7.20 and C18 2.4, unless you're using Kevin Watson's Beta C18 3.0+ code, which I'm not sure I'd recommend to a first time FRC programmer, as it might still have bugs and the C18 3.10 compiler is high conservative about interrupt handlers and could easily bog down your code if you're not careful. So yes, I would strongly recommend just installing the version of MPLAB off the CD in the kit. You'll need those specific versions anyways if you want to work with Vex, as Kevin W. hasn't updated the Vex starter code to be 3.10 compatible yet.

The CRC thing must have been a problem with my computer at home. I really would like to use Kevin's latest code framework, primarily because it is so well documented and has some improved functionality for sending PWC (?) commands. His code doesn't compile on the MPLAB that came with the robot kit that I have though.

If I don't use the version the beta version he has posted, what version am I supposed to be using? Can someone give me a link?

Right now I am up to speed programming the VEX using the sample code that comes with it. Is there completely different sample code to be used as a starting framework for the FRC controller? How can I experiment between the two systems interchangeably?

We don't have anything at school up and running to let me test code on the FRC so for the moment I am limited to the VEX system.

Thanks,

John

[bcharbonneau]

We (Team 1296) are having problems as well. But only on one of our computers. It's giving us an error involving a .cof file but seems to be creating the .hex file anyway. We not far enough along to determine if the .hex file is any good. Any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks,

C

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by bcharbonneau

...It's giving us an error involving a .cof file...

We'd be able to give you better help if you quoted the actual error. But my guess is that you're running into a known issue involving long path names. The part of the link process which creates the .cof file doesn't deal well with the long name that comes from deeply nested folders. The usual advice to fix the problem is to put your program directory somewhere close to the root, like C:\ROBOT.

Or you can just ignore the error, because you don't actually need the .cof file in order to load the program into your robot.