Scoring ambiguity

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Posted by Paul Donovan.

Coach on team #296, Northern Knights, from Loyola High School and Arial Systems and Nortel Networks.

Posted on 1/9/2000 7:22 PM MST



Hello everyone,
I spent a fair amount of time reading messages last year but this is my first post.
The rules state that a team receives 10 points for hanging from the bar OR being picked up by the alliance robot. SC1.3 Here's my question:
If one robot is on the ramp and picks up the partner does the alliance score 15 or 20 points? 10 for the robot that is picked up, 5 for one or both robots for being on the ramp?
I think it's 15 but I don't think it's clear. Any thoughts?

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Posted by Daniel.

Coach on team BORG (Berkeley Operational Robotics Group) from Berkeley High School sponsored by (working on the sponsor, too).

Posted on 1/9/2000 7:36 PM MST


In Reply to: Scoring ambiguity posted by Paul Donovan on 1/9/2000 7:22 PM MST:



One robot is considered 'hanging' as it doesn't touch the playing feild floor. That's 10 points.

One robot is on the ramp. That's 5 points.

10+5=15 This should be your magic number.

-DL

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/10/2000 3:17 AM MST


In Reply to: 15 posted by Daniel on 1/9/2000 7:36 PM MST:



Not touching the floor is not the definition of hanging that I took away from Dean & Woodie's presentation.

If a robot is not touching the flat floor it is worth 5 points. So...

Both robots in your example would meet that test, therefore they are worth 5.

If they were not touching the ramp as well as not touching the floor AND were supported by the hanging bar, THEN they would be worth 10, but this is not the situation you described.

Joe J.

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Posted by Jerry Eckert.

Engineer from Looking for a team in Raleigh, NC sponsored by .

Posted on 1/10/2000 6:24 AM MST


In Reply to: I vote for 10 posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2000 3:17 AM MST:



: Not touching the floor is not the definition of hanging that I took away from Dean & Woodie's presentation.

: If a robot is not touching the flat floor it is worth 5 points. So...

: Both robots in your example would meet that test, therefore they are worth 5.

: If they were not touching the ramp as well as not touching the floor AND were supported by the hanging bar, THEN they would be worth 10, but this is not the situation you described.

I watched the kick-off on the Internet. The audio was very choppy, so it's quite possible I
missed something. I got the impression that a team would score 10 points if the robot is
up the ramp and not touching the ground - either hanging or lifted by their partner's robot.

Rule SC1 (3) seems to support that interpretation:

'[...] A robot is considered 'hanging' if it is not touching the ramp or the
playing field surface. A robot is only allowed to attach itself to the horizontal
bar directly above the ramp or can be picked up by it's [sic] alliance partner.'

From the second paragraph on page 3 of the 'Game' section:

'A robot being held by its alliance partner off the carpeted playing field
surface is worth an additional 10 points.'


Jerry

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/10/2000 9:43 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: I vote for 10 posted by Jerry Eckert on 1/10/2000 6:24 AM MST:



Jerry if very correct.

Somehow I got in my head that hanging implied touching the bar (perhaps is was Woodie saying words to the effect that the definition of 'hanging' is 'hanging').

I was wrong. No such requirement exists.

Joe J.

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Posted by Daniel.

Coach on team #483, BORG, from Berkeley High School and NASA Ames & UC Berkeley.

Posted on 1/10/2000 1:34 PM MST


In Reply to: I voted wrong! (TWICE!) posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2000 9:43 AM MST:



Joe you were very right to assume 10 before looking at the rules. If I didn't have the whole 8 hour flight back from new hampshire to read the rules I would have agreed with you. They had made it very clear at kickoff that off the ground was only 5 points. Dean made a booboo. Anyways, keep reading! It's good stuff. =)

-DL

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Posted by Jon.

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 1/10/2000 6:34 AM MST


In Reply to: I vote for 10 posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2000 3:17 AM MST:



I concur with the original 15 as one bot is on the ramp (+5) and is lifting the other (+10).

Also the definition of 'hanging' that i got out of kickoff was that if you were touching the bar but were supported by your ally (so that you were not touching the ramp) you would get +10. i think you're not actually hanging as in supported by the pipe, but since you are still being lifted by the other bot, you're getting +10 either way. i think they left it as 'hanging' because it kinda becomes a moot point then. you're only gonna get +10 once, so its kinda loose.

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/10/2000 9:13 AM MST


In Reply to: 15 posted by Jon on 1/10/2000 6:34 AM MST:



If you are lifted AND you are touching the pole, then it might be a score of 15 (5 for the robot on the ramp 10 for the robot being lifted by the robot on the ramp that is also touching the hanging pole).

BUT...

The original message did not say that the robot being lifted was also touching the hanging pole.

A robot that is being lifted by a robot on the ramp is worth 5. A robot on the ramp is worth 5. Therefore I stick with my initial call of 10 points (total) for a robot on the ramp picking up another robot.

Joe J.

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Posted by Jon.

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 1/10/2000 9:32 AM MST


In Reply to: I still say 10 posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2000 9:13 AM MST:



: If you are lifted AND you are touching the pole, then it might be a score of 15 (5 for the robot on the ramp 10 for the robot being lifted by the robot on the ramp that is also touching the hanging pole).

: BUT...

: The original message did not say that the robot being lifted was also touching the hanging pole.

: A robot that is being lifted by a robot on the ramp is worth 5. A robot on the ramp is worth 5. Therefore I stick with my initial call of 10 points (total) for a robot on the ramp picking up another robot.

: Joe J.
-----

ah!
here i refer to section 1.2.4 Match Scoring:
'A robot being held by its alliance partner off the carpeted playing field surface is worth an additional 10 points.'

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/10/2000 9:46 AM MST


In Reply to: and i still say 15 posted by Jon on 1/10/2000 9:32 AM MST:



see attached link. I am wrong.