How many people like bumpers?

[1086wulf]

Bumpers encourage bumping. I think there should be no bumpers. They increase your footprint and really don't do that much. The robots are made out of metal I mean come on what's gonna happen?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by 1086wulf

Bumpers encourage bumping. I think there should be no bumpers. They increase your footprint and really don't do that much. The robots are made out of metal I mean come on what's gonna happen?

It is what it is.
--
You may have joined FIRST post bumpers. I can remember games before bumpers and metal is not impervious to damage and rough treatment. Neither are the other parts of the robot that are attached to the metal. The GDC members are reflective of what young people on FRC teams aspire to be and they know what they are doing. If they make a rule that says the bumpers are mandatory this year, I would wager it is for good reason and we will begin to understand that reason more fully as the competition season begins to play out and we have 6 robots on the field along with those mammoth balls.

[AdamHeard]

I'm a fan of rough games with lots of interaction (one of the reasons I like this year). I don't like them for the sake of destruction, but for how much more difficult it makes the game objective. Now, I see bumpers as a way to increase the level of interaction without risking destruction.

Combined with the 15 pounds down low for CG, I'd say I'm a huge fan.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It is what it is.
--
You may have joined FIRST post bumpers. I can remember games before bumpers and metal is not impervious to damage and rough treatment. Neither are the other parts of the robot that are attached to the metal. The GDC members are reflective of what young people on FRC teams aspire to be and they know what they are doing. If they make a rule that says the bumpers are mandatory this year, I would wager it is for good reason and we will begin to understand that reason more fully as the competition season begins to play out and we have 6 robots on the field along with those mammoth balls.

Jane,
Bet you are right, but why do they have to count in the size of the robot? They don't count in the starting box, why do they count when you are playing the game. Those 3.25-6.5 inches (depending on how many sides of an axis are covered) can make or break a design. My request is simple: if bumpers are going to count in the size restriction, make it count for the starting size too. It would make my head hurt less.

[Capt. Quirk]

I think the bumpers will prevent bots from running over a slower bots wheels and drive train.

Bad things happen fast when you get wheel on top of wheel contact between 2 racers on a track.

[Bruceb]

Here are some quotes from the robot manual
STANDARD BUMPERS – Bumper assemblies designed to attach to the exterior of the ROBOT within
the BUMPER ZONE, and constructed as specified in Rule <R08>. STANDARD BUMPERS may weigh
up to 15 pounds, and are excluded from the weight and volume calculations specified in Rule <R11>.

<R08> Teams are required to use STANDARD BUMPERS on their ROBOTS. Bumpers can
reduce damage to ROBOTS when they contact another ROBOT or field elements.
STANDARD BUMPERS have several advantages, such as being excluded from the
calculation of the ROBOT weight and volume limitations specified in Rule <R11>.
STANDARD BUMPERS must be constructed as described below.

<R13> For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations
specified in Rule <R11>, these items are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT
included in the weight and volume assessment of the ROBOT:
 The 12V battery and its associated half of the Anderson cable quick
connect/disconnect pair (including no more than 12 inches of cable per leg, the
associated cable lugs, connecting bolts, and insulating electrical tape) on board the
ROBOT,
 Any STANDARD BUMPER assemblies included on the ROBOT that are in
compliance with Rule <R08>, up to a maximum of 15 pounds,

Not sure what you are looking at.
Bruce

[vhcook]

The bumpers don't count for starting size (R11) because they're specifically exempted. However, they are not exempted from the measurement for max horizontal dimension (R16). It's confirmed in Q&A that the bumpers count against your 80 inches.

[Bruceb]

That I can understand but it seems most folks on this thread (unless I missunderstood) think they count in the starting config measurements.
Just wanted to make sure that was not the case.
Bruce

[Molten]

(Read with sarcasm)

Yes, of course we should have the freedom of choice. We should not have to have a bumpers. We should not have to be under 120 pounds. We should be able to put chainsaws on our bot.

(end of sarcasm)
Sorry, if that was in the least bit rude but from what I gather, people would rather have freedom then a challenge. The challenge is why I want to be an engineer. If I could go out and make anything I want with no specifications or restrictions then it just wouldn't be engineering. If you don't agree with me refer to the design process. One of these steps specifically states that we should identify the problem. This year the problem includes a bumper requirement. Plain and simple, design for that and it won't matter.

My only concession: It is mighty hard to find pool noodles in Indiana at this time of year.

[Alan Anderson]

Bumpers are good. We'd design for protected wheels even if they weren't mandatory. Having the extra size and weight to work with is double good.

Originally Posted by Molten

My only concession: It is mighty hard to find pool noodles in Indiana at this time of year.

That's why I bought a pile of them last July.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

That's why I bought a pile of them last July.

Y'all have 'piles' in Indiana? Wonder if you have messes, too - as in, I bought a mess of them last July. mess = pile. But I digress...

go bumpers!

[Mike@1023]

well they DO help protect robots from very agressive driving, but they also promote the same violent behavior. so keep them and we have brutality, loose them and we have no protection.

[JesseK]

I like the bumper rule. It forces you to further engineer your robot to meet specs laid out by a pseudo-customer. And since our bot will be going roughly 15ft/s this year, I honestly want the impact force of ~.015 seconds spread out over a pool noodle instead of the frame. Bumpers are cheap (time-wise) to replace at the competition; aluminum framing is not.

Anyone can make a something strong, but it takes and engineer to make something strong and light. and isn't that what we are supposed to be? Future Engineers!

Engineering is not solely experimentation. Engineering really is about solving problems, and problems ALWAYS have constraints or things that you CANNOT assume or modify.

In the real world, if you don't like the constraints put onto you by Nature, you can, simply put, get over it.
In the real world, if you don't like the constraints put onto you by your engineering employer, you can find a new job or go it alone.
However, in the real world if you go it alone as an engineer and don't conform to the constraints of your customer, you won't make any products/designs that actually solve someone's problem. You also won't make any money.

Even as a theorist or scientist, you will have constraints you knew about and pull your hair out trying to find the ones you don't know about. The difference is that as an engineer at least most of your restrictions, regulations, and requirements are straightforward.

Now, to engineer something strong and light for your bot, you can make a 2x2x2' cube. Your bumpers are only 6' long, which is roughly 8lbs, and 8 outta 15 ain't bad. Put a hemispherical dome on top of the cube and BAM you can run around with flare like R2D2.

[Mr.G]

Installing bumpers on a robot that are predefined and have specific requirements involve NO engineering. It is completely and absolutely construction. The bumpers we use in FIRST are about as far from engineering as you can get, the engineering was already done by FIRST's GDC. If I thought that was what engineering was about I wouldn't have become an engineer. Cheers.

I don't want to say that because of the spirit of FIRST.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Molten

My only concession: It is mighty hard to find pool noodles in Indiana at this time of year.

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

That's why I bought a pile of them last July.

We thought of that. Actually we thought of going out in late Sept or Oct and getting them on closeout special. Somehow that just didn't happen.