Legal? Hurdling Over Overpass and Over Lane Divider

[7-11number1]

Is it legal to hurdle the ball over the overpass and onto the other side of the lane divider? I can't find a rule that the strategy violates.

This could potentailly help a team with two hurdling robots score much faster.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by 7-11number1

Is it legal to hurdle the ball over the overpass and onto the other side of the lane divider? I can't find a rule that the strategy violates.

This could potentailly help a team with two hurdling robots score much faster.

Nothing says anything against it. A similar strategy was displayed during the kickoff video (human match).

[MasterRobot]

Currently, i believe it is legal, but i heard from a person in charge of a regional that it may change, so keep your eyes open on the FIRST Q&A because its bound to come up and be answered soon

[EricH]

Originally Posted by MasterRobot

Currently, i believe it is legal, but i heard from a person in charge of a regional that it may change, so keep your eyes open on the FIRST Q&A because its bound to come up and be answered soon

People in charge of a regional come in third place--behind the Manual and the GDC (not necessarily in that order--GDC can change rules). Should this be declared illegal, it will result in an amended rule or two--and that means a team update. All teams will know of this, when and if it happens.

Legal until declared to be illegal.

[Steve_Alaniz]

Originally Posted by EricH

People in charge of a regional come in third place--behind the Manual and the GDC (not necessarily in that order--GDC can change rules). Should this be declared illegal, it will result in an amended rule or two--and that means a team update. All teams will know of this, when and if it happens.

Legal until declared to be illegal.

I used to be in charge of a regional.... and yes... we are in third place.....
....still...... PPPBBBBTTTTTT!!!!!!!

Steve

(We work HARD to fund raise and put on these regionals so... a little respect please!)

[Mr. Freeman]

Is this what you're looking for?
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8037

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by Mr. Freeman

Is this what you're looking for?
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8037

This question was posted by us on the Q&A when we were brainstorming all possible scoring alliances but we have decided against it since this is our Rookie season. We are staying with a simpler design and strategy.

It opens some other possible ways of moving the ball around the course. It can go diagonal either way as well.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Coach Norm

...
It opens some other possible ways of moving the ball around the course. It can go diagonal either way as well.

Be careful about saying that the Trackball "can go diagonal either way as well." While you could move the Trackball diagonally across the center of the Overpass, doing so may not have the effect that you want. Notice that the Finish Lines do not cross the center of the field - they are offset, leaving a 32-inch space between them. So if you were to throw your Trackball over your Overpass for a Hurdle, then move it around to your opponent's Home Stretch and throw it from there across the center of the field and back into your Home Stretch in an attempt to move it quickly around the Track, you would run into some problems. When crossing diagonally over the center of the field, the Trackball does not actually satisfy the criteria for crossing the opponents Finish Line, which means you would run afoul of Rule <G13> if you tried to score with it again.

-dave




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[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Be careful about saying that the Trackball "can go diagonal either way as well." While you could move the Trackball diagonally across the center of the Overpass, doing so may not have the effect that you want. Notice that the Finish Lines do not cross the center of the field - they are offset, leaving a 32-inch space between them. So if you were to throw your Trackball over your Overpass for a Hurdle, then move it around to your opponent's Home Stretch and throw it from there across the center of the field and back into your Home Stretch in an attempt to move it quickly around the Track, you would run into some problems. When crossing diagonally over the center of the field, the Trackball does not actually satisfy the criteria for crossing the opponents Finish Line, which means you would run afoul of Rule <G13> if you tried to score with it again.

-dave




.

Actually I believe it's currently ambiguous, and depends on how you define the plane of the finish line.

If the plane is infinite vertically but not horizontally then tossing the trackball diagonally across the overpass may not satisfy crossing the plane of the finish line.

However, if the plane also is infinite horizontally then it would cross the finish line properly.

I believe that the GDC will probably have to define the boundries of the finish line plane, and in doing so will have to define that the trackball must completely pass through the finish line plane.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Actually I believe it's currently ambiguous, and depends on how you define the plane of the finish line.

If the plane is infinite vertically but not horizontally then tossing the trackball diagonally across the overpass may not satisfy crossing the plane of the finish line.

However, if the plane also is infinite horizontally then it would cross the finish line properly.

I believe that the GDC will probably have to define the boundries of the finish line plane, and in doing so will have to define that the trackball must completely pass through the finish line plane.

I see no ambiguity in the definition of the Finish Line. It is described in Chapter 6 of The Manual, and defined in the official field drawings. There is nothing in either document that implies that the Finish Line extends horizontally without limit.

There is no need for FIRST to redefine the Finish Line. It is already done, and the information describing it is already available. All you have to do it read it.




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[EricH]

Originally Posted by Steve_Alaniz

I used to be in charge of a regional.... and yes... we are in third place.....
....still...... PPPBBBBTTTTTT!!!!!!!

Steve

(We work HARD to fund raise and put on these regionals so... a little respect please!)

Trust me Steve, I know. My dad happened to be the FTA last year at L.A. and he has been volunteering for...well, I don't exactly know how long. Since 2003 at the very latest. (He's also on the Regional Committee.) I was simply pointing out that, with respect to the rules, there are others higher up the totem pole than the regional director.

[7-11number1]

According to everything I read and the rules this is legal under two conditions.

1) The ball must cross the overpass AND the finish line.
2) The ball must pass the opponents start/finish line before scoring again.

Thus, if the ball is thrown from the middle of the track on a diagonal and it cross the overpass, start/finish line, and lane divider this still counts +8. A team mate can be waiting on the other side to herd the ball back around.

If an alliance has two fast-hurdling bots running 180-degrees apart, the scoring can be significant.