Legal fastener for aluminum structural framing question.

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Posted by nuts4first.

Engineer on team #340, GRR - Greater Rochester Robotics, from Churchville-Chili and Nortel Networks.

Posted on 1/21/2000 7:03 AM MST



We are looking at extruded aluminum supplies from a vendor. Available from the vendor are also various kinds of fasteners including what the vendor refers to as clamps, angle-bolt connectors, right-angle connectors (gussets), junction connectors, connection links, etc. Are these items legal? Do these items fall under the 'fasteners' (or some other category) of the Additional Hardware list?

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/21/2000 7:14 AM MST


In Reply to: Legal fastener for aluminum structural framing question. posted by nuts4first on 1/21/2000 7:03 AM MST:



On page 32 of The Robot - Appendix, Joining Plates for Extrusions are allowed in any size, any amount.

So... The issue for you is then whether or not the things you are asking about are reasonably covered under the definition of Joining Plate for Extrusions.

Anybody have any better ideas?

Joe J.

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Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 1/21/2000 11:14 AM MST


In Reply to: Is it a Joining Plate? posted by Joe Johnson on 1/21/2000 7:14 AM MST:



On page 31 of the Robot - Appendix C, FASTENERS, washers, nuts, adhesives are approved, any amount, for joining only.

To me, this legalizes t-slot nuts and other fasteners related with the extrusion, but does not legalize other connectors, gussets, or hinges.

Hopefully, we can categorize a 'gusset' as a 'joining plate'. I'm not 100% sure about this one.

Andy B.

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Posted by nuts4first.

Engineer on team #340, GRR - Greater Rochester Robotics, from Churchville-Chili and Nortel Networks.

Posted on 1/21/2000 2:08 PM MST


In Reply to: Or Is It a Fastener? posted by Andy Baker on 1/21/2000 11:14 AM MST:



Yes, I understand that the joining plates are legal. I see that joining plates are just flat pieces of stock cut in a triangle shape.

But there are other pieces like 'L' shaped angle braces (like you would use for a book on a bookcase, only much smaller, 1/2' x 1/2'), end-to-end & angle connectors (similiar to 90 degreee, 45 degree and straight PVC joints), swivel joints (similar to Kee Klamp swivel joints).

I have seen several teams build their robot carts out of this material, but I don't know if it is legal on the robot itself.

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Posted by Ken Patton.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 1/21/2000 2:48 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Or Is It a Fastener? posted by nuts4first on 1/21/2000 2:08 PM MST:



Here's my interpretation:

If you are using the device to connect two structures together to keep them fixed in contact or very close contact with each other, then its a fastening device and is legal.

If you are using the device to hold two structures away from each other, then its a structure and not a fastener (so its not a freebie unless it meets some other rule reqt).

If there is relative motion intended between the two structures, then it is not a fastener (so its not legal unless it meets some other rule reqt).

my two cents..

Ken

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Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 1/22/2000 12:30 AM MST


In Reply to: fastener vs. structure vs. other stuff posted by Ken Patton on 1/21/2000 2:48 PM MST:



: Here's my interpretation:

: If you are using the device to connect two structures together to keep them fixed in contact or very close contact with each other, then its a fastening device and is legal.

: If you are using the device to hold two structures away from each other, then its a structure and not a fastener (so its not a freebie unless it meets some other rule reqt).

: If there is relative motion intended between the two structures, then it is not a fastener (so its not legal unless it meets some other rule reqt).

: my two cents..

: Ken


OK, I asked Eric about this a while back, and he said:


Per the additional hardware list, you are allowed unlimited use of joining plates for the extruded aluminum. Other hardware (slides, hinges, etc.) is
not covered, but you could get a hinge from another source and attach it to a joining plate.

There you have it.

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Posted by nuts4first.

Engineer on team #340, GRR - Greater Rochester Robotics, from Churchville-Chili and Nortel Networks.

Posted on 1/22/2000 3:14 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: fastener vs. structure vs. other stuff posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/22/2000 12:30 AM MST:



Yes, I understand the rule about the joining plates (having unlimied use of them) and the hinges (only coming from the kit or Small Parts)

I specificaly want to know if we are allowed to use off the shelf COUPLERS (straight, angles, and swivel) to join extruded structural aluminum (see my link above, if you don't know what this material is). My feeling is that they are similiar to the use of PVC pipe fittings.

So again, are these legal fasteners or fittings?

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Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 1/23/2000 6:20 PM MST


In Reply to: Yes, I understand but.... posted by nuts4first on 1/22/2000 3:14 PM MST:



: Yes, I understand the rule about the joining plates (having unlimied use of them) and the hinges (only coming from the kit or Small Parts)

: I specificaly want to know if we are allowed to use off the shelf COUPLERS (straight, angles, and swivel) to join extruded structural aluminum (see my link above, if you don't know what this material is). My feeling is that they are similiar to the use of PVC pipe fittings.

: So again, are these legal fasteners or fittings?

Uh, I guess I'm not understanding what you are asking. Any plate or angle used to join the structure together is legal. If it's a swivel, then I wouldn't use it unless I had Eric's verdict. Really the stuff is so versatile, getting around a using swivel is no problem.

Take a look at the stuff at the link below. They have 3 or 4 ways to attach anything, and many of those ways use the angle or plate method. In my experience, they're less expensive, and ship faster than anybody. If you have Item or some other metric based set, they have metric stuff too, and someone mentioned here that it all bolts together.



Sam

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Posted by Charlie Affel.

Other on team #487, SPARTANS, from Springfield HS, Springfiled MontCo, PA and PEW Charitable Trust,, Rohm & Haas, Yeager Industries.

Posted on 2/1/2000 8:51 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Yes, I understand but.... posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/23/2000 6:20 PM MST:



I have submitted question about the legality of vendor supplied nylon (delrin?) 'slides' and sliders to ear@usfirst. S/B answered by tommorrow 2/2. I will post the response in this thread.