Go to Post As long as this is a competition teams will push the limits. Those that succeed are those who can push the envelope and still stay within the lines. - Steve W [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 24-01-2008, 23:22
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,033
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Apparently two resistors are switched on one of the gear tooth sensors in the KOP.

R3 and R4 are the ones....see the pics...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...6&postcount=21

So now we know what we have to do.

The bad board in our case is the one that was cut off the end, that is, the one with J1 and J2, the board with J4 and J5 is good.

But you should double check!
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 01:03
lynca's Avatar
lynca lynca is offline
Andrew Lynch
FRC #2587 (DiscoBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,613
lynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond reputelynca has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to lynca
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Did the resistor switch cause the Gear Tooth Sensor to go bad ? Or did the Gear Tooth Sensor have some other problem?
__________________
History: 624 - Cryptonite --> 118 - Robonauts --> 2158 - AusTIN CANS --> 2587 DiscoBots
Bio: Andrew Lynch "How I Work" ---- LinkedIn , Facebook, Twitter
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 01:15
billbo911's Avatar
billbo911 billbo911 is offline
I prefer you give a perfect effort.
AKA: That's "Mr. Bill"
FRC #2073 (EagleForce)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Elk Grove, Ca.
Posts: 2,384
billbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

First off, how on earth did you figure that out!! And , THANK YOU!!!!!


Now, when I get to the school tomorrow, I'll double check ours. It would be really good to know what the values are supposed to be. Removing and replacing those will be REAL FUN.

Is there a chance you can get cleaner pictures?
If not, I'll get my camera out and see if I can get a couple of really sharp images when I get a chance.
__________________
CalGames 2009 Autonomous Champion Award winner
Sacramento 2010 Creativity in Design winner, Sacramento 2010 Quarter finalist
2011 Sacramento Finalist, 2011 Madtown Engineering Inspiration Award.
2012 Sacramento Semi-Finals, 2012 Sacramento Innovation in Control Award, 2012 SVR Judges Award.
2012 CalGames Autonomous Challenge Award winner ($$$).
2014 2X Rockwell Automation: Innovation in Control Award (CVR and SAC). Curie Division Gracious Professionalism Award.
2014 Capital City Classic Winner AND Runner Up. Madtown Throwdown: Runner up.
2015 Innovation in Control Award, Sacramento.
2016 Chezy Champs Finalist, 2016 MTTD Finalist
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 01:24
Eugene Fang's Avatar
Eugene Fang Eugene Fang is offline
The Blue Alliance
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Bay Area, CA -> Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 772
Eugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

One of our mentors took a magnifying glass and started looking at each of the part numbers. lol. thanks to him, we found the error. and so did team 1726
__________________
Eugene Fang
2010 Silicon Valley Regional Dean's List Finalist

Various FLL Teams - Student (2000-2006), Mentor (2007-2010)
FRC Team 604 - Student (2007-2010), Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2015)
FRC Team 1323 - Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2014)

The Blue Alliance | TBA GameDay | TBA Android App
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 02:47
eugenebrooks eugenebrooks is offline
Team Role: Engineer
AKA: Dr. Brooks
no team (WRRF)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 601
eugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond reputeeugenebrooks has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

The part numbers for R3 and R4 are indeed swapped
on our gear tooth sensor that does not work. Without
a SMD rework station it will be quite a chore to swap
them to their correct positions. Perhaps a customized
soldering iron tip and a pair of tweezers will do it.

Eugene
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 08:26
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,033
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Here is a quote from an email I recieved from my brother...he deals with small circuit boards with surface mount components on a regular basis, and successfully reworks them at home (with the help of his B&L stereo microscope)

------------------------------------------------
"I can swap those in a few minutes, or better yet you can do it yourself.

The trick is the technique.

First, tools. You have to have a microscope or magnifier to see what you're doing, a pair of very good but not too sharp tweezers (I use size 00), and a smallish but not teeny-tiny soldering iron tip. Some smallish solder wick and fine solder (.020" ideal, .031" acceptable) are needed as well.

The first resistor may be removed by placing the soldering iron tip across both ends of the resistor at the same time, so that it is heated up at both ends. Then lift it up with the tweezers, or it comes up on the iron and you pull it off the iron with the tweezers.

Now, use the solder wick to remove the solder from the PC board pad that is on the left if you're right-handed, so that the end closest to the iron still has solder.

Do the same for the other part.

Now, with the correct resistor in the tweezers, hold it in place and heat up the solder blob while pressing the resistor into position. Then quickly solder the other end with the fine solder. Don't linger with the iron; the other end will heat up and the part may stick to the iron again.

Repeat as needed. "
-------------------------------------
And an addendum....

"First, clean the iron tip by wiping it on a wet sponge.

Then, you need to put a blob of solder on the iron tip to make it want to heat up the resistor. Use more solder than you think is appropriate - the blob has to be at least as long as the resistor to heat both ends simultaneously.

If you don't use the big solder blob, then it's nearly impossible to get the resistor off the board.
"
-----------------------------------

This is tricky work! If you don't have a lot of soldering experience, you will probably mess it up...and you need good eyesight and steady hands, and a clean, well lit area to work in.

If there is any type of college or industrial place nearby that deals with small circuit boards they might be willing to help, if you ask nicely....

Last edited by MrForbes : 25-01-2008 at 12:06. Reason: added more soldering info
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 10:01
billbo911's Avatar
billbo911 billbo911 is offline
I prefer you give a perfect effort.
AKA: That's "Mr. Bill"
FRC #2073 (EagleForce)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Elk Grove, Ca.
Posts: 2,384
billbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
------------------------------------------------
"I can swap those in a few minutes, or better yet you can do it yourself.

The trick is the technique.

First, tools. You have to have a microscope or magnifier to see what you're doing, a pair of very good but not too sharp tweezers (I use size 00), and a smallish but not teeny-tiny soldering iron tip. Some smallish solder wick and fine solder (.020" ideal, .031" acceptable) are needed as well.

The first resistor may be removed by placing the soldering iron tip across both ends of the resistor at the same time, so that it is heated up at both ends. Then lift it up with the tweezers, or it comes up on the iron and you pull it off the iron with the tweezers.

Now, use the solder wick to remove the solder from the PC board pad that is on the left if you're right-handed, so that the end closest to the iron still has solder.

Do the same for the other part.

Now, with the correct resistor in the tweezers, hold it in place and heat up the solder blob while pressing the resistor into position. Then quickly solder the other end with the fine solder. Don't linger with the iron; the other end will heat up and the part may stick to the iron again.

Repeat as needed. "
-----------------------------------

This is tricky work! If you don't have a lot of soldering experience, you will probably mess it up...and you need good eyesight and steady hands, and a clean, well lit area to work in.

If there is any type of college or industrial place nearby that deals with small circuit boards they might be willing to help, if you ask nicely....

It looks like your parents did a great job raising you and your brother. You both are excellent examples to follow. Tell your Bro, Thanks from all of us here on CD!!
__________________
CalGames 2009 Autonomous Champion Award winner
Sacramento 2010 Creativity in Design winner, Sacramento 2010 Quarter finalist
2011 Sacramento Finalist, 2011 Madtown Engineering Inspiration Award.
2012 Sacramento Semi-Finals, 2012 Sacramento Innovation in Control Award, 2012 SVR Judges Award.
2012 CalGames Autonomous Challenge Award winner ($$$).
2014 2X Rockwell Automation: Innovation in Control Award (CVR and SAC). Curie Division Gracious Professionalism Award.
2014 Capital City Classic Winner AND Runner Up. Madtown Throwdown: Runner up.
2015 Innovation in Control Award, Sacramento.
2016 Chezy Champs Finalist, 2016 MTTD Finalist
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 15:05
TubaMorg TubaMorg is offline
Programmermechanicalelect ricalcoach
AKA: Dan
FRC #1480 (Robatos Locos)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 450
TubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond reputeTubaMorg has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

We fixed ours with a hammer
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 20:15
usbcd36's Avatar
usbcd36 usbcd36 is offline
Registered User
AKA: "DOS"
FRC #2399 (The Fighting Unicorns)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Solon, OH
Posts: 151
usbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

This is where having great mentors/sponsors is helpful. One of ours has a surface-mount soldering station with a stereoscopic microscope meant for this kind of work, and they were able to help us swap the resistors. We'd already ordered the Honeywell sensors by then, but it's so much more compact to use the kit sensors.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 20:16
Vikesrock's Avatar
Vikesrock Vikesrock is offline
Team 2175 Founder
AKA: Kevin O'Connor
no team
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 3,305
Vikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond reputeVikesrock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Vikesrock Send a message via MSN to Vikesrock Send a message via Yahoo to Vikesrock
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Quote:
Originally Posted by usbcd36 View Post
This is where having great mentors/sponsors is helpful. One of ours has a surface-mount soldering station with a stereoscopic microscope meant for this kind of work, and they were able to help us swap the resistors. We'd already ordered the Honeywell sensors by then, but it's so much more compact to use the kit sensors.
So the board works properly after swapping the resistors?
__________________


2007 Wisconsin Regional Highest Rookie Seed & Regional Finalists (Thanks 930 & 2039)
2008 MN Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 2472 & 1756)
2009 Northstar Regional Semifinalists (Thanks 171 & 525)
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 20:19
usbcd36's Avatar
usbcd36 usbcd36 is offline
Registered User
AKA: "DOS"
FRC #2399 (The Fighting Unicorns)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Solon, OH
Posts: 151
usbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the roughusbcd36 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Yes, it does.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-01-2008, 22:52
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,033
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

That's good to know! thanks for the report
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-01-2008, 01:29
billbo911's Avatar
billbo911 billbo911 is offline
I prefer you give a perfect effort.
AKA: That's "Mr. Bill"
FRC #2073 (EagleForce)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Elk Grove, Ca.
Posts: 2,384
billbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond reputebillbo911 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

With the help of a student with much better eyesight than I, we were able to swap the two resistors on the end board in the set. We verified that the resistors were properly aligned and soldered with a "dissection microscope" from the science lab. Man what a difference that thing made in being able to see what we had done.
I am hoping provide feedback on how well the circuit works now. Hopefully I can provide this information by tomorrow evening.

By the way, here is a hint or two that can really help make the swap go easier.
The gear tooth sensor it's self is magnetized. When you get the resistors loose, they may get stuck on it. The hardest thing to do is re-solder R4. It is right next to the sensor. You will not be able to place the resistor on the board without holding it in place. I was able to make a very small wood chip into a holder, a toothpick would work well. Just put a notch in the tip and press it onto the resistor. That way you can hold the resistor in place with one hand, hold the solder in an other and the soldering iron in your third hand. Yes, it takes two people.

Good luck!!
__________________
CalGames 2009 Autonomous Champion Award winner
Sacramento 2010 Creativity in Design winner, Sacramento 2010 Quarter finalist
2011 Sacramento Finalist, 2011 Madtown Engineering Inspiration Award.
2012 Sacramento Semi-Finals, 2012 Sacramento Innovation in Control Award, 2012 SVR Judges Award.
2012 CalGames Autonomous Challenge Award winner ($$$).
2014 2X Rockwell Automation: Innovation in Control Award (CVR and SAC). Curie Division Gracious Professionalism Award.
2014 Capital City Classic Winner AND Runner Up. Madtown Throwdown: Runner up.
2015 Innovation in Control Award, Sacramento.
2016 Chezy Champs Finalist, 2016 MTTD Finalist

Last edited by billbo911 : 26-01-2008 at 10:14.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-01-2008, 11:05
Biff Biff is offline
Registered User
AKA: Tom Cooper
#1227 (Techno Gremlins)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 214
Biff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the roughBiff is a jewel in the rough
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

The other method for small chip items is to use two soldering irons. Ungar Princess my favorite but they are no longer sold. Good irons with a thermostactily controled heater at about 750f and small flat tips. Same process as far as good light and magnifiers, and solder wick to clean up. You use the two irons, one each side of the chip at once. I've had good luck getting parts removed with this method, but sometimes kill the removed part. Having a helper with the tweasers grab the part should help with the runining the part problem.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-01-2008, 17:19
JYang's Avatar
JYang JYang is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jenny
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 146
JYang is just really niceJYang is just really niceJYang is just really niceJYang is just really nice
Re: Gear Tooth Sensor problem found

Looking at the PCB from left to right there is a sensor with J1 and J2, then the second board has J4 and J5. Which is the good one and which is the one with the parts in the wrong place?
Thanks.
George
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with 2008 gear tooth sensor Larry R Sensors 27 18-02-2008 11:39
Gear Tooth Sensor Zoom Programming 46 22-01-2008 08:05
Gear Tooth Sensor Nathan Programming 4 12-01-2008 15:09
gear tooth sensor connecting problem nirty Electrical 2 23-01-2006 12:17
Gear Tooth Sensor AMIRAM Electrical 2 22-01-2006 04:09


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:05.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi