<R16> penalty

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by Anne Shade

Here are my concerns with that Q&A answer,

According to the manual,

(The emphasis is mine)

So since the Q&A says that reaching outside of the 80" cylinder may result in a yellow card, how far outside of the 80" cylinder will be considered "egregious" enough for a yellow card? How are referees going to determine that in real time? Is reaching to 85" inches going to be considered egregious but not 4"?

First people are saying that the 80" rule penalty is not defined. It is clearly defined in section 7.2 The Game Definitions.

PENALTY: A 10 point decrement in the Alliance score assigned when a deserving violation of the game rules has been identified by a referee.

Much like last year's 72" rule, the penalty for breaking the rule is 10 points. Breaking any rule is a 10 point penalty, and every instance of the violation is another 10 point penalty. Robot rules are still part of the overall game rules.

So if you've designed a mechanism that breaks the 80" rule, and you haven't used mechanical stops, or sensors and system feedback with coding to prevent this from happening, other than operator skill, you're asking to be penalized.

Now, on your question as to what defines "egregious" behavior to earn your team a yellow card, its a little more complicated than a "magic" over reach measurement. First, if your robot can extend to 80.001" you can be penalized, but it is doubtful that you will because a referee will have a tough time gauging that small of an infraction during a match. With that said, you still can be penalized after the match concludes. If the referees know, or a team captain for the opposing alliance team knows that your robot has the potential to break the 80" rule, they may ask that your robot be remeasured in a similar state after the match concludes before the match is scored. If the referees can reasonably determined that your robot exceeded the 80" rule you will be penalized. Reasonably determined? Say your arm uses pneumatics to open/close, pneumatics aren't variable in their open/closed states. So if the referees have you open your pneumatic arm and your at 80.001" it can, and should, be a penalty. Simple as that.

Now the yellow card can come into play. Yellow cards generally won't be given for first offenses. Now the referees know for sure that your robot breaks the rules. They should warn you to correct the problem immediately before your next match. So, if your at 80.001" a quick filing should fix the problem. The referees aren't going to check on your "repair" in the pits or before a match, they'll wait until they, or the opposing alliance, thinks you've broken the rule again. After the match they'll measure again, if you're over it's a penalty, if not you're OK. Again, if your over, and receive a second penalty, now you're pushing your luck. Three strikes and you're out. If you again fail to fix your robot's offending condition, and you have another match and you again break the rule, you're probably getting the yellow card. The first definition for "egregious" behavior is repeated violation of the same rule.

Several years ago I witnessed a team that repeated broke the height limit of the starting envelope. They were repeatedly warned by the referee to fix the problem. Unfortunately, even the team's mentor didn't seem to think it was a big deal because they were only over by 1/8". Finally, the referee disqualified the team for not fixing their problem. That was in the days before yellow cards.

If your arm can reach, say 83", and the referees determine that it does reach that dimension very often in the regular operation of the robot, then multiple penalties can be assigned within a single match. Now if you're making obvious repeated offenses during a match a referee will probably verbally warn the drive team during the match and you'll receive multiple penalties. Again, you will be warned to "fix" your robot before your next match. If you continue to ignore the referees warnings, you'll be earning the yellow card. If your drivers ignore the referees warnings during a match, you could also receive a yellow card, too.

Lastly, if your robot can exceed the 80" rule. During the course of play your drive team uses this extra reach to block an opposing robot in some way intentionally, or the referee thinks it's intentional, and if the referee believes this may have drastically altered the match, he can again yellow card you.

So trying to give a number like x inches over 80 is "egregious" is a very bad assumption. 80.001" can be "egregious" if the referee thinks it is. Especially if you've been repeatedly warned.

As I said earlier, if you've built a mechanism that can break this rule, fix it!

Either with a new design, mechanical stops, limit switches or other sensors, and/or code limits. Why risk the grief?