Nationals a la NCAA

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 3/19/2000 8:07 PM MST


In Reply to: Dialectic then synthesis... posted by Karthik Kanagasabapathy on 3/19/2000 1:13 PM MST:



While I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of an elite 8, it doesn't really solve anything, it just shifts the unfairness.

Yes, the two alliance pairs from each group could be put on different branches of the tourney, but why is that more fair? Who is to say that this won't pair up the best and second best alliance in some other way? I think that this only shifts the unfairness to another pairup..

Just my two cents.

Joe J.

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Posted by Pat Major.

Other on team #468, Explorer, from BSA/Baker.

Posted on 3/16/2000 10:02 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Scouting?? posted by Nate Smith on 3/16/2000 5:37 PM MST:



: : I'm sorry.. did you say that scouting was... *twitch twitch* FUN?!?!? hehe...

: Believe me, once you see our scouting system...you just might think it is...entering our scouting results into the system is as much fun as wandering the web...literally. Stop by the GM Central Intelligence booth in Chicago or Orlando to find out what I mean...

: Nate

New guy again ..... Does anyone believe the scouting you get from the pits. It looks to me like the best scouting is done watching from the stands. Also can any one help me....when I'm in bed at night trying to sleep, I keep thinking about the Chief, the problem, when I look at most robots I think, I would have done this or that differently (including ours). When I think about the Chief I can't picture any improvements and the more I think about it ,the more things I see in the design that were given a lot
of thought and are not just there. How can I think about beating these people if I can't picture a better robot. There is a method on scoring that was not used at GLR and it appears that they have that covered also.... even though they didn't use it. Do they do this every year? This guy is really starting to tick me off. I know .... I like the color blue, they should have painted him blue. Some times it just helps to talk things out.

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Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 3/16/2000 11:00 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Scouting?? posted by Pat Major on 3/16/2000 10:02 PM MST:



: : : I'm sorry.. did you say that scouting was... *twitch twitch* FUN?!?!? hehe...

: : Believe me, once you see our scouting system...you just might think it is...entering our scouting results into the system is as much fun as wandering the web...literally. Stop by the GM Central Intelligence booth in Chicago or Orlando to find out what I mean...

: : Nate

: New guy again ..... Does anyone believe the scouting you get from the pits. It looks to me like the best scouting is done watching from the stands.
There's some things that you can figure out by watching a machine in the pits...we're actually using both field and pit reports.

: Also can any one help me....when I'm in bed at night trying to sleep, I keep thinking about the Chief, the problem, when I look at most robots I think, I would have done this or that differently (including ours). When I think about the Chief I can't picture any improvements and the more I think about it ,the more things I see in the design that were given a lot
: of thought and are not just there. How can I think about beating these people if I can't picture a better robot. There is a method on scoring that was not used at GLR and it appears that they have that covered also.... even though they didn't use it. Do they do this every year?
Yep...this is my third year being involved with this competition, and the Chief has always had a machine that has been a contender...i would definitely have to say, however, that their machine this year is one of the best that i've seen from them yet...

Nate

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Posted by Lora Knepper.

Student on team #69, HYPER (Helping Youth Pursue Engineering & Robotics), from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.

Posted on 3/17/2000 3:37 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Scouting?? posted by Nate Smith on 3/16/2000 11:00 PM MST:



: Yep...this is my third year being involved with this competition, and the Chief has always had a machine that has been a contender...i would definitely have to say, however, that their machine this year is one of the best that i've seen from them yet...

: Nate

***This is also my 3rd year in FIRST, and right from the beginning the first lesson I learned was NEVER underestimate Chief Delphi!! It's a philosophy that still does not protect me from the shock and awe inspired with each new bot out of their shops. And even though I have yet to see CD V in action, from the stills and the reports from GLR, I'd have to agree with Nate on this being one of their finest. Both my dreams and my nightmares are filled with pics of the Chief, and I can't wait to see them in FL!

Lora Knepper
Driver ~ Team 69

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Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 3/17/2000 7:55 AM MST


In Reply to: Nationals a la NCAA posted by Chris on 3/16/2000 1:33 PM MST:




Chris,

I love it! Chris... you are a man of great ideas.

OLD RULE:
-----------
Looking at rule GM25... 'the book' reads:

'...sixteen (16) alliances at the National Championship will qualify to advance to the elimination rounds. Alliance partners will be chosen as follows:

1. Starting in descending rank order, a rep. from each seeded team will select one alliance partner.

2. After all of the first alliance partners have been chosen, the process will start again and each alliance will select their third alliance partner.

3. If one of the top seeds selects another seeded team as an alliance partner, the team with the next highest qualifying points becomes seeded.'

-----------------

In order to accommodate the changes that Chris suggests, the above rule would look something like this:

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NEW RULE:
-----------------

Eight (8) alliances at a regional event and thirty-two (32) alliances at the National Championship will qualify to advance to the elimination rounds. Alliance partners will be chosen as follows:

1. Four divisions of randomly selected teams will each have the top eight (8) alliances advance to the elimination rounds.

2. Each division's top eight (8) alliances can only pick their alliance partners within their own division.

3. Starting in descending rank order, a rep. from each seeded team will select one alliance partner.

4. After all of the first alliance partners have been chosen, the process will start again and each alliance will select their third alliance partner.

5. If one of the top seeds selects another seeded team as an alliance partner, the team with the next highest qualifying points becomes seeded.

6. Each division will operate a divisional competition so that one alliance will be a 'division champion'.

7. Each 'division champion' will proceed to the Final Four, where a National Champion will be crowned.
--------------------

I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but this could be a start. The more work we do in figuring this out, the more apt FIRST will be to accept it... possibly.

Please change/add/omit as needed.

Andy B.

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Posted by Chris.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

Posted on 3/17/2000 8:21 AM MST


In Reply to: FIRST: Change to GM25 posted by Andy Baker on 3/17/2000 7:55 AM MST:



Hey Andy, I love the work you did!

Some of the concerns I have read are worries about one division being stacked so some deserving teams won't make it to the eliminations. I disagree for this reason: under the old system, 16 teams picked partners meaning that 48 teams make it to the eliminations. Under the new system, 32 teams pick partners meaning that 96 teams make it to the eliminations (obviously, that's twice as many). This means that teams are twice as likely to make it to the eliminations. So even if you're in a stacked division, your odds are still most likely better than under the old system.

I think a big advantage of the new system is that it is much easier for good teams to get noticed. Now you only have to sell yourself to 70 teams instead of 280. Combine that with the fact that twice the teams get to play and the result is that less good teams will be 'sitting on the bench'.