Predictions: A cynical view of reality

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

(heck, a stick with a pneumatic attached can do this really well, why make anything more complex to do the same job?).

That is exactly what we did. We used a poll and a 1.5" cylinder to knock off the ball. we have a "1726 style" bot that is honestly my favorite of the 4 years I've been on the team. I am hoping more bots of this style pop up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W10F7X8a_LE

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

Yea, I kinda exaggerated the backspin, and I also kinda suck at animating,,,

But you get the idea, at least...

Put some grooves (like a golf club) and grip material on your catapult arm (1726) and see what happens.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by CraigHickman

Yeah, I agree that it takes a whole alliance to win, but my point lies elsewhere. Even though it's an alliance that wins, there is usually one robot who has the MOST wins, and the MOST points (ie, 25 in Aim High). I have a feeling that bot will be a low, fast shooter, and not a larger arm based system.

I get what you're saying, but I'm saying that ultimately we won't be able to call that yet. It's going to depend on each robots alliance composition over the course of the year, as I don't think any design will have the tools to dominate every single match in this game. 2008 is a much more alliance structured game than 2006 or 2007, and it will be very very difficult for individual robots to dominate once teams realize techniques they can use to stop them. They only way I see one team dominating every match is if 148/1519 and their super-lapping friends end up being correct and laps ultimately make the difference more than anything else (which is yet to be seen, and I definitely have my opinions on this matter). Otherwise as close as we'll get to seeing a robot dominate are the robots that can combine the strengths of each system while minimizing the weaknesses. So far there has been only a couple teams that have shown me that they have enough advantages to even have the possible potential to take over a match, and none have enough to guarantee it for me.

[danshaffer]

Originally Posted by jgannon

I have yet to see a video of a shooter intentionally landing the ball on top of the overpass.

(Not that I happen to think it's all that important, but maybe it will turn out to be.)

we can do it... i'll post a video if we actually manage to pull it off

[TheOtherGuy]

Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzQ9kYlWWA

[Scott Carpman]

Originally Posted by danshaffer

we can do it... i'll post a video if we actually manage to pull it off

At the 1:21 mark of this video, we show one of our drivers attempting to do just that. After a few tries, they manage to successfully launch for placement 4 out of every 5 times.

[danshaffer]

Originally Posted by Scott Carpman

At the 1:21 mark of this video, we show one of our drivers attempting to do just that. After a few tries, they manage to successfully launch for placement 4 out of every 5 times.

yeah, but you first have to find the right position... fortunately we can do it with a simple rangefinder, or maybe with something even simpler... the flag! 51" flag rule doesn't have to be a drag, it can be a design feature!

[Optimizer]

Originally Posted by Jetweb

I'm not so sure that game play is going to be the deciding factor. In the regionals it will be what wins but once you get to nationals it always seems to come down to bonus points and the on field scores are usually almost the same on both alliances. This year that is Hybrid and finishing with the ball on the rack.

The fast hurdlers will be shut down by defense in some way or another.

The thing about shooters is that they have to make sure they are in just the right spot, just like everybody else, right? They are usually faster, in the actual act, but they also have a harder time chasing after the ball afterward, and usually have a harder time grabbing. Mostly - as you imply - they generally can't place, and that can mean big points at the end.

But your best point is what everybody else has missed -the importance of Hybrid Period. The best teams may score 1/3 to 1/2 of their points in that period!!

[Madison]

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy

Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCzQ9kYlWWA

Drive around the field a few times, then do it.

Rinse. Repeat.

[GUI]

Originally Posted by Optimizer

The thing about shooters is that they have to make sure they are in just the right spot, just like everybody else, right? They are usually faster, in the actual act, but they also have a harder time chasing after the ball afterward, and usually have a harder time grabbing. Mostly - as you imply - they generally can't place, and that can mean big points at the end.

But your best point is what everybody else has missed -the importance of Hybrid Period. The best teams may score 1/3 to 1/2 of their points in that period!!

I think you are overestimating the importance of placing the ball at the end. If you place it and drive under the overpass you only get 4 more points than if you hurdle and drive under.

[TheOtherGuy]

Originally Posted by Optimizer

The thing about shooters is that they have to make sure they are in just the right spot, just like everybody else, right? They are usually faster, in the actual act, but they also have a harder time chasing after the ball afterward, and usually have a harder time grabbing. Mostly - as you imply - they generally can't place, and that can mean big points at the end.

Shooter's will have just as hard a time if not easier a time of tracking down the ball than arm-bots. The grabbing mechanism has almost nothing to do with the design. I've seen tons of good grabbers on shooters and arm-bots alike, and several mediocre ones.

[AdamHeard]

I think there are some arm bots that will be very useful alliance partners.

I have seen several arm bots that can pick up the ball at full speed (one was 17 fps) without having to stop (won't divulge team numbers as these videos haven't been posted online yet, well 973 is one, but that's my team...). Now, they may not hurdle as fast, but they are definitely better at picking up the ball than any shooter bot I've seen videos of (1625 is pretty close though).

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by GUI

I think you are overestimating the importance of placing the ball at the end. If you place it and drive under the overpass you only get 4 more points than if you hurdle and drive under.

exactly another insight that influenced our bot, it doesn't make too much sense to sacrifice efficiency elsewhere in the match for something that'll get you 4 more points. When by having a faster design you'll easily outweigh that 4 point gap

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

(1625 is pretty close though).

woot lol

[BHS_STopping]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Drive around the field a few times, then do it.

Rinse. Repeat.

Well, we have driven around the field a few times and landed it on the overpass (probably by virtue of sheer luck, though), but it certainly is possible. However, I don't think it's really worth the risk of firing to late/early and then end up not being able to clear the overpass or having the ball bounce off the overpass and hit your robot.

I'm sure with practice, people may be able to do it on the move. But until then, I don't think that the extra 4 points is really worth risking a hurdle over. Plus, I'm sure it would be easy for another team to knock the trackball off, anyway, so again, I think that an endgame hurdle would be the most effective idea for a shooter to implement here.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by GUI

I think you are overestimating the importance of placing the ball at the end. If you place it and drive under the overpass you only get 4 more points than if you hurdle and drive under.

But if you find yourself in the other alliance's home stretch as time is expiring, and you manage to put the ball on top, you get 12 points more than if you didn't.