School Administration troubles

[Al Skierkiewicz]

F,
You need to show them how important this program is and what it means for students. If you are attending a regional in your area, invite them and the school board to attend. Get them team Tshirts and get them into the stands to watch and cheer. Let them walk around like a team member and see the effect it would have on other students. A few bad apples in a single year do not represent the entire program.
If any administrator would like to discuss this, have them PM me and we can exchange email addresses or phone numbers. If you are close or attending either the Midwest, Boilermaker or the Minnesota regional, have them come and meet me in the pits and I will try and show them the effects and relate to them how much this program means. Yes every team will have someone who gets out of line, even us. I can tell you that one of those people reversed his ways, accepted the imposed 1 year removal from the team but came back with a vow to be the best he could be. He proved it and became driver that last year as well as a model mechanical pit crew member.
I believe FIRST puts more students on the road to college and further success than any other program currently in schools. You can't fight that kind of success.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by F-ball

Also, the general trend among replies seems to be that we should continue trying to negociate with the school in one way or another. If this does not work out, however, how feasable would it be for us to run independent of the school, from some other location?

Right now 99% of the focus should be working to fix the problem. The administration and the teams should not be inclined to "give up so easily" at this point. Giving up, by either the team or admin, is the easy way out of the problem. Problems are not solved by ignoring them but facing the squarely and head on.

It may be useful to have a 'distinguished outside panel' to help review and repair the problem. Possibly a small collection of respected adults that are active in the business community and education might work. You see this in many things. For example when the Challenger space shuttle was lost there was a commission to review it.

The ability of your team to navigate through this crisis potentially will have a big future impact. Please look at this as an opportunity for your team to demonstrate to the school and and business community to face and overcome a tough issue.

If done well the team could earn a new level of support in the community that surpasses the previous history.

Food for thought.

PS. when presenting, take the 'long view'.

It is about a lot more than our team today, but about the future path of education and its economic impact in that area.

Does the public shut down a whole school because of one misguided student ? Of course not !!

Do you deny educational and inspirational opportunity to a generally well motivated group of students because of the misdeeds of one student. Ridiculous !!

Okay, so go make a speech worthy of "Mr. Smith goes to Washington" !!

good luck

[JaneYoung]

Your team could draft a student/parent participation agreement form which would include the appropriate conduct expectations.
If you PM me, I'll send you a copy of ours. (I know I owe someone else a copy but my brain has become a haze.)

The agreement form will show that your team is serious and will work to comply with the strict standards set regarding cheating and misconduct.

Work to prepare your elevator speech as well, so that each of you are prepared to advance the importance of the team to the members, the school, and the community.

Edit:
This is also a lesson for each of us to pay attention to. One person can make a difference, whether it be positive or negative. One person is capable of jeopardizing a team's integrity and impact. One person can also work to restore it.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by F-ball

To slightly elaborate on the wrongdoings of some of the leaders, it mostly involved two students and mal-use of computers at school. The first of the students attempted to steal private data from a robotics computer, and was "caught" by the second student, who reported to the rest of the robotics leadership. The incident quickly escalated to the school administration, and some prior computer history of the second student was uncovered, which had nothing whatsoever to do with robotics. Although both suffered identical punisments from the school, including being kicked from the team, members of the team were in support of the second student, as he didn't do anything wrong regarding robotics, and indeed pointed out the wrongdoings of the first student to robotics.

Doesn't matter. The second student violated school rules, and was punished as a result.

More recently, the second student was there when the team was practicing in a different location on campus, and was reported by a teacher, which reduced credibility even further.

And now you're getting the team in deeper and deeper. The team has defined itself as a rogue organization in the minds of the administrators - they don't accept the rulings on punishment for member's misdeeds. The second student was expelled from participating - why did the team let him be there?

Also, the general trend among replies seems to be that we should continue trying to negociate with the school in one way or another. If this does not work out, however, how feasable would it be for us to run independent of the school, from some other location?

You do need to continue to try to work with the school. Whether that means continuing as a school-sponsored activity or not, you still have to have a working relationship. You've gotten that rogue reputation, and that will be hard to overcome. If you split off on your own, you can expect very little cooperation between the team and the school. Would you have a place to meet? Would your sponsor(s) continue to support the team? - some give support to teams because they are supporting a school group. Would any teachers that you have as team mentors continue on? These kinds of questions all have to be answered before you make a decision to go independent.

[wilsonmw04]

question to the OP:
Do you have a mentor from the school (teacher) with you at all times?

[Team2339]

I agree with JaneYoung above. An ethics/behavior document will state your effort to fix the problem and create the image you are handling the issue internally. It also allows the administration to save face and give input to the rules, lending credibility to them. Never pass up a chance to let admin take credit for your ideas if it will keep the team in good standing.

I also agree with the above post about the second student. Even bad guys do good things, but they still need discipline applied appropriate to the infraction.

I would suggest doing whatever you can to stay with the school. Team 2339 had a serious uphill battle to gain Antelope Valley High School support, but after a few articles in the paper and an invite to the principal to see what we were doing to one of her classrooms, we are on the same page. We still watch our own members and are pretty strict about what everyone does and how they act around school. We also do not assume we are fine now, we still are looking for ways to improve.

[JohnBoucher]

You need to be positive with any dealings with the administration.

Make up a presentation and present to the school, the board, Rotary Club, Elks and anyone else that will listen. Keep the presentation positive. Mention the 9 million in scholarships a few times.

Is there a parade that you can march the robot in? That pays off big time in good will.

Go the the administration with an action plan. Listen to what they have to say. There may be other reasons they are taking this opportunity to remove support. Be positive.

Does your financial support come from the school? This may be a simple budget issue. We formed a parents group, got non-profit status and fund the entire program that way.

Keep us in the loop.

[Gboehm]

The problem is Administrators look for easy solutions. To them they may see it as a way of saving money, and they are just using the disciniplary action as a front for that. I feel my team would have been in a similar boat had we not been able to beat our rival schools in it. Unfortunetly, thats what it takes. You have to let them see the positives of the team, have an administartor come down and watch you guys build. Mention scholarships, and if you have any people persuing engineering.

The biggest thing I see which is sad, the only reason robotics is surviving while autoshop, woodshop, and metalshop classes are being shut down, is that robotics is seen as "white collar" enough. That is a tragedy! My family owns an auto repair, yet many high schools have no auto programs...

I know I rant too much...

Good Luck guys...

[SL8]

Our team is running into major administration obstacles lately like roses smell sweet. Working under these conditions is much more dificult than I could possibly have ever expected. When I speak to the admin. and share my opinions, I remind myself to stay calm and if I feel myself becoming irate I tell myself that the admin. is just part of our " design constraints" and to look at the issue in the view of an engineer.
Good Luck whatever you all decide.

[doubleslash]

F-ball,

From your second post, it seems to me that maybe your team lost credibility because they tried to defend the actions of the "second student" you mention. For all I know, they could be right. If the second student really had not done anything wrong related to the robotics club, then I think it's unfair that the administration would kick him/her off the team. However, the "wrongdoings" are strictly private business between the two students and the administration. I'm guessing that you got your information through word of mouth with the two students, and not through the administration (feel free to correct me). If this is the case, then you never know if the school had a legitimate, robotics-related reason to kick the two students off the team. And, even if this is not the case, schools can usually punish students arbitrarily, including kicking them off extracurriculars (this is certainly true at my school).

My point is that either way, I don't think your team should shrink away from challenges or responsibility. I have to repeat GaryVoshol's question: why did the team let the second student participate, even after he was kicked out of the club? If you want to rebuild trust with the administration, there is one thing your team has to accept: whether or not you agree with the school's decision, they trusted the team to enforce it. When the team doesn't enforce it, they lose the school's trust (GaryVoshol also said this).

It is up to "the rest of the robotics leadership" and other concerned members of your team to restore trust with the school by speaking with the administrators involved. I don't think, as many have offered on this thread, that a presentation on the merits of FIRST is necessary. The issue is most likely a trust issue arising out of the fact that the team didn't enforce school rules by letting the second student participate even after he/she was kicked out. The first thing to do, as I mentioned above, is to take responsibility for the incident, without excuses, without justification. However, if you feel you are strongly justified, you should offer up whatever explanations you have as analysis--why, realistically and historically speaking, the situation unfolded the way it did--not as excuses.

The second step would be to let the administration know that they are being too hasty and overblowing the situation (this is my personal opinion, at least, if what happened is exactly as you described). I agree with fredliu168 and Al Skierkiewicz that a few bad apples don't represent the entire team. You need to explain to the administration that this was an isolated incident, involving just a couple members. As JohnBoucher mentioned, present to them a plan for the future. You should make it clear that you and the rest of your team are interested in working with them, not against them. In this respect, I disagree with SL8 that the administration could be considered a "design constraint." Rather, they should be one of your resources.

Thirdly, although I stated above that I believe your team has a trust issue with the school, as opposed to the school simply not understanding the value of FIRST, you should, as Nibbles and EricH suggested, invite them to come to your competition. If they have not attended before, they will understand what they are risking. It becomes easy, as Gboehm said, for the administration to look for the easy solutions. At this point, the administration may be frustrated or annoyed with what has happened with your team. Working day by day at school, they never see the results of your work. If they attend a competition, they will see rows upon rows of students, parents, mentors, and spectators in their differently colored team t-shirts. They will see dozens of unique robots, each proudly bearing team numbers and school names. And, if they look into the pit area, they will see a sea of young people, brightly spirited, and each working hard towards a common goal. The question will come naturally to them: "where's our team?" They will understand, there, that what you give is what you get.

Best of luck to you and your team this year and in future years; please keep us informed.

[SL8]

Originally Posted by doubleslash

F-ball,

In this respect, I disagree with SL8 that the administration could be considered a "design constraint." Rather, they should be one of your resources.

I think that you may have taken what I said the wrong way. In considering the admin. a design constraint, I in no way meant that they should be considered a burden or enemy. I do endorse cooperating with them and they have my utmost respect. But when there is an issue that needs to be resolved, I consider it a constraint that I attempt to make into "resource" as with any other constraint.
Nothing personal. Also I'm sorry that this post does't contribute to the hread, but I felt compelled to rectify this misunderstanding quickly.

-Jesus