Rule G22 needs to be changed

[Dave Flowerday]

I think rule G22 needs to be changed. There are way too many penalties for breaking this rule and it's sucking the fun out of the game. It's so easy to violate this rule that most teams don't even know they've done it. Does anyone else feel this way?

My suggestion: change the rule so that it says that once you've fully entered a new zone, you cannot fully return to the previous zone. Example, if I completely cross the blue line, but then back up a little bit so half my robot is over the line, no penalty. However, if I continue to back up and fully cross the blue line in reverse, then the penalty is assessed.

I believe this would maintain the intent of keeping the traffic flowing in the correct direction but greatly reduce the number of penalties for incidental contact with a line after it's been crossed.

Way too many matches are being decided by penalties this year and that's not fun for the teams or the audience.

[SU 39]

I agree completely. It's difficult enough as it is to drive a robot amid all the traffic. I just saw a match where a team had 50 points worth of penalties, taking their 40 something score down to 0, giving the other alliance the win with only 20 or so points.

[Dave Flowerday]

For those who don't know G22:

<G22> Direction Of Traffic – ROBOTS must proceed around the TRACK in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE, it shall not break the plane of the line by moving in the clockwise direction. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction.

[Cory]

I totally agree. It seems like upwards of 50% of the violations are occurring because teams get halfway into a new zone and encounter some sort of obstruction and need to back up to get around, and inadvertently get the penalty, or they try to pick up a ball while halfway in a new zone, etc.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

I think rule G22 needs to be changed. There are way too many penalties for breaking this rule and it's sucking the fun out of the game. It's so easy to violate this rule that most teams don't even know they've done it. Does anyone else feel this way?

My suggestion: change the rule so that it says that once you've fully entered a new zone, you cannot fully return to the previous zone. Example, if I completely cross the blue line, but then back up a little bit so half my robot is over the line, no penalty. However, if I continue to back up and fully cross the blue line in reverse, then the penalty is assessed.

I believe this would maintain the intent of keeping the traffic flowing in the correct direction but greatly reduce the number of penalties for incidental contact with a line after it's been crossed.

Way too many matches are being decided by penalties this year and that's not fun for the teams or the audience.

I get this feeling watching the webcasts as well. Between the ability to control the robot itself and the ability to see exactly where your robot is at on the other side of the field, it appears to be very difficult to get around traffic around the lines without getting a penalty.

With the large magnitude of a single penalty with relation to the magnitudes of the scores (at least 10% and anywhere up to 30%-50%) penalties appear to be deciding far more matches than they should.

Your suggested modification looks like it would keep traffic moving in the correct direction while getting rid of many of the penalties.

[Ross340]

I totally agree. It leaves arm robots at a loss. If they're required to cross to hurdle. I've seen a bunch of this.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Ross340

I totally agree. It leaves arm robots at a loss. If they're required to cross to hurdle. I've seen a bunch of this.

??

The initial crossing is already as written in Dave's suggested modification.An arm bot crossing the finish line to hurdle (having an appendage behind the overpass to hurdle I would assume) should be able to back up into the quadrant they were just in without penalty.

[Mike o.]

Robots do not get penalized until they have FULLY CROSSED the line, meaning that every part of the robot is in the new quadrant, and then their robot crosses/breaks the plane of the line in the clockwise direction. I think that the rule is pretty good the way it is set up. I do believe that teams should start to think outside the box when it comes to encountering traffic jams, meaning that if a robot is sitting there and not moving, and you can't move cause if you back up or the only way you can move will cause you to incur a penalty, then bump the robot to pass. If the robot doesn't move in the 6s grace period, they will get penalized. And if they continue to do this, they will according to G41 get a yellow card or probably penalized more.

just my 2cents

[Justin Montois]

They've made Rule changes after week 1 before. Dave....

[Paul Copioli]

Dave,

I have to disagree with you on this one. It is a rule like any other. The rule was clear from the start. Either don't fully cross the line, or once you cross it, then keep going.
BTW, one of our losses today was due to a partner getting this penalty. If the rule was changed to fully crossing back, then teams would violate that rule too.

-Paul

[Uberbots]

Its not one of the rules thats meant to spoil the fun, its an element of the game designed to make it harder. with this rule in place, the game becomes more challenging.

[Tapoore]

I believe that removing the penalty attached to this rule would be too much of a change in gameplay. Maybe a better amendment would be to make it 5 points? 2 points?

I will admit though, the rule is really quite annoying- we lost a couple of matches due to alliance partners getting penalized.

[waialua359]

I dont like the rule.
thank god our robot base doesnt cross the line while trying to hurdle the ball with our arm.
Along with the 80" rule, it really limits what teams could have done with building their bot and keeping good center of gravity. Its like their arms have to be in front of their base somewhat, trying to balance a huge 10 lb ball, without tipping and/or without the robot base crossing the line. So much "rules" on how to hurdle.
I hate to see penalties affecting the outcome of matches, especially when it may be hard to see across the field and lots of traffic.

I can see shooter/catapult bots having an easy time meeting the rule.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I dont like the rule.
thank god our robot base doesnt cross the line while trying to hurdle the ball with our arm.
Along with the 80" rule, it really limits what teams could have done with building their bot and keeping good center of gravity. Its like their arms have to be in front of their base somewhat, trying to balance a huge 10 lb ball, without tipping and/or without the robot base crossing the line. So much "rules" on how to hurdle.
I hate to see penalties affecting the outcome of matches, especially when it may be hard to see across the field and lots of traffic.

I can see shooter/catapult bots having an easy time meeting the rule.

Yet again, this is not the problem with this rule. If part of your arm is behind the overpass, you are still in that previous quadrant (your home stretch) and can return there without penalty.

The problem is when there is traffic around the lines and robots are trying to maneuver around. If they leave it the way it is I think they need to start calling a lot more impeding penalties to clear out some of those jam ups.

[Jazonk]

I think you are completely right, the penalty is too high.