Go to Post Just got our robot crate back. The FedEx driver told me he was watching the robotics competition online and asked how our team did. He knew about Team 27 and 469. We must be doing a great job in Michigan promoting FIRST if a FedEx driver watch FRC matches online and was excited talking about it. - Ed Law [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 00:07
jason_zielke jason_zielke is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jason Zielke
FRC #1024 (Kil-A-Bytes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 31
jason_zielke is a splendid one to beholdjason_zielke is a splendid one to beholdjason_zielke is a splendid one to beholdjason_zielke is a splendid one to beholdjason_zielke is a splendid one to beholdjason_zielke is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to jason_zielke
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by TubaMorg View Post
Here is the most important point of this discussion. If the rule were changed then just as many penalties would be called because teams would knowingly cross back partially but sometimes cross too far.
I would have to disagree with this point. I have been at Midwest for the last 2 days and have never seen a robot that crossed a line because they were trying to interntionally go backwards. I have seen robots with drivers that have little or no experience and struggle to control the robot crossing a line by 1/2" and then breaking the plane resulting in a penalty. We are putting a ton of pressure on the student drivers if we are expecting them to control a robot in a high stress situation, looking 50 feet down a field through multiple layers of lexan (that is reflecting in all kinds of funny ways) and keep from crossing a line backwards with no tolerance for error. In many cases, they can't even tell if they have crossed the line or not.

I am lucky to have an exceptional drive team, but I am sympathetic to those teams that have inexperienced drive teams.

By not penalizing until to robot completely crosses back across the line, you give the the drivers the length of the robot to recognize their error and correct it. This seems much more in the spirit of the game and of the mission of FIRST than penalizing a tiny error.
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 00:17
cbale2000's Avatar
cbale2000 cbale2000 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Chris Bale
FRC #5712 (Gray Matter)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Saginaw, MI
Posts: 955
cbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

I will agree that this rule does seem to be a bit harsh in a lot of situations, especially in autonomous mode where there isn't anything you can do about your robot (unless you have a working Robo coach program). Unless there is a team with an auton program that is obviously making an intentional effort to go against traffic, I don't think the penalty should be so severe.

Tele-operated mode is a slightly different story, I can see how the rule needs to be there to prevent teams from going back across, but I don't think it's necessary to give a 10 point penalty just because a team happened to go like an inch across while still trying to go in the correct direction. Now if you have teams trying to go back to grab a ball, thats an obvious penalty, but so long as the intention is there, I don't see how it would cause a problem.


From a drivers point of view, it is very difficult to see your robot on the other side of the field, especially with the number of other robots that can be impeding your vision at the same time.

I guess I would just like to see the rule at least a little less strict.
__________________
2005-2008: FRC 703 Phoenix - Driver
2009-2016: FRC 703 Phoenix - Mentor
2017-????: FRC 5712 Gray Matter - Mentor
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 00:57
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,821
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbale2000 View Post
Now if you have teams trying to go back to grab a ball, thats an obvious penalty, but so long as the intention is there, I don't see how it would cause a problem.
Speaking as a former referee (2005) intent is incredibly hard to judge in the heat of the moment. You can't assume anything about intent, only what your eyes have seen on the field.

You either have to call every infraction, no matter how small, or figure out how to keep teams from continuing to receive penalties, be it a rule change, or simply more practice for teams, etc.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 02:00
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is offline
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,731
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Speaking as one of the many many loophole finders that plague the GDC every single season.... Dave's proposed rule change is going to cause more problems and is probably just going to be exploited by teams that could take advantage of it. I can think of a few teams that would benefit from redoes by whipping out an extension behind their robot so they have about 5 feet of wiggle room.

Honestly, if you really really absolutely hated this rule, just switch it from an instant penalty to a timed penalty like the endzone encroachment last year. You get a fair warning but still have leeway to sneak a bumper across th plane by accident.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 02:14
artdutra04's Avatar
artdutra04 artdutra04 is offline
VEX Robotics Engineer
AKA: Arthur Dutra IV; NERD #18
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Greenville, TX
Posts: 3,078
artdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond reputeartdutra04 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

G22 is the 2008 version of the incredibly high 30-point penalties from Triple Play in 2005.

Yeah, we all hated the rule. Yeah, there were a ton of penalties. But eventually, teams got used to it and drivers learned to drive a lot more carefully while at the opponents end of the playing field.


That being said, I certainly do not like the amount of penalties being seen in this year's game. One way or another, I sure hope it goes down as the season progresses.
__________________
Art Dutra IV
Robotics Engineer, VEX Robotics, Inc., a subsidiary of Innovation First International (IFI)
Robowranglers Team 148 | GUS Robotics Team 228 (Alumni) | Rho Beta Epsilon (Alumni) | @arthurdutra

世上无难事,只怕有心人.
  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 02:33
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
President, VEX Robotics, Inc.
FRC #3310 (Black Hawk Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,392
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

I just don't get it. You have 30+ inches to figure out if the congestion will hurt you. Don't fully cross the line if you think you might have to go backwards. There are too many penalties because people are causing the penalties by not following the rules (in most cases).

This rule was clear from the start, never changed, and gives us 30+" of leway .. I just don't get why people are attacking this rule.
  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 02:45
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,315
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

I havent competed yet, but I think the big deal is that there are a lot of penalties occuring AND its affecting match outcomes.
I cant speak for the drivers that are doing it wondering why they aren't careful enough or the reasons why they "accidentally" do it (lack of sight, etc.) but I think its safe to say that teams dont purposely accumulate penalties and the comment about the lexan glare is a valid one.
I certainly can understand some of the points made by my observations watching regional play from the "side" view all day.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 08:08
Tom Line's Avatar
Tom Line Tom Line is offline
Raptors can't turn doorknobs.
FRC #1718 (The Fighting Pi)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Armada, Michigan
Posts: 2,540
Tom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond reputeTom Line has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

They are taking an incredibly hard line on this rule, and it needs to be modified.

I watched a number of matches where a robot crossed a line, turned to proceed onwards, and back corner of the bot crossed the line again when they turned. Instant penalty.

When a rule is broken this much, clearly unintentionally, then it needs to be changed. The spirit of the rule is to prevent backwards motion of the robots - against the flow of traffic. The letter of the law is making it very dangerous to do any maneuvering. MANY times it's being broken because bot has to back up to get away from a wall, etc that they've been pushed or bumped into.

I agree with Dave. This rule is deciding way to many matches, and needs to be changed to penalizing a bot that FULLY crosses back over the line. Then all these small unintentional crossing penalties that are having a major impact on the final scores would be mitigated.
  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 09:20
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
Software Engineer
VRC #0111 (Wildstang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Rookie Year: 1995
Location: North Barrington, IL
Posts: 1,366
Dave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond reputeDave Flowerday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
There are too many penalties because people are causing the penalties by not following the rules (in most cases).

This rule was clear from the start, never changed, and gives us 30+" of leway .. I just don't get why people are attacking this rule.
Paul, what I'm seeing a lot of and the reason I think this needs to be changed is that we're seeing lots of tank-steer robots which cross the line then start to tank-turn which causes one of their corners to back up slightly, creating a shadow about 1" long on the other side of the line and BAM... penalty. The majority of the penalties I'm seeing are not at all intentional and many are coming from younger teams with less experienced drivers.

Incidentally, I think we've only been penalized for this once. I'm not arguing for this change for the benefit of our team, but rather the many other less experienced teams that are getting dinged repeatedly basically just because they have inexperienced drivers and robots that aren't quite as easy to control.

Maybe it's just not being enforced as strictly at your regional as here.
  #40   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 09:35
Jimmy Cao Jimmy Cao is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jimmy Cao
no team
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 295
Jimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant futureJimmy Cao has a brilliant future
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Speaking as a former referee (2005) intent is incredibly hard to judge in the heat of the moment. You can't assume anything about intent, only what your eyes have seen on the field.

You either have to call every infraction, no matter how small, or figure out how to keep teams from continuing to receive penalties, be it a rule change, or simply more practice for teams, etc.
That is a very good point. It is hard to judge "intent" when you have 5 other robots and such to watch. Thinking about it more, I do think that drivers will learn (over time) to be more careful and they'll pick up less of these penalties.

However, if someone has an auton that goes awry, I feel that it shouldnt be penaltized UNLESS it hurts another robot.
__________________
Jimmy Cao

Team 469 2006-2010 Student/Alumni
Team 830 2011-2012 Mentor
  #41   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 12:37
AcesPease AcesPease is offline
Teacher Mentor
AKA: Bill Pease
FRC #2836 (Team Beta)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Suffield CT
Posts: 266
AcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud ofAcesPease has much to be proud of
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Speaking as a former referee (2005) intent is incredibly hard to judge in the heat of the moment. You can't assume anything about intent, only what your eyes have seen on the field.

You either have to call every infraction, no matter how small, or figure out how to keep teams from continuing to receive penalties, be it a rule change, or simply more practice for teams, etc.
It sounds like the head referees at this weekends events need to meet with the GDC and decide if a change is needed, and if so, be sure it doesn't make the problem worse. I hated the way penalties decided matches in 2005, and I do not want that to rule the game this year. BUT, We all knew the rules before this weekend started, a new rule may be tough on some teams that are already avoiding this penalty.
__________________
Bill Pease FIRST Team 2836 Team Beta
Formerly FIRST Team 176 Aces High
WFF 2010
  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 13:32
joshsmithers's Avatar
joshsmithers joshsmithers is offline
go team 4910! get that FLL!
AKA: username-ers=myname
FRC #0587 (Hedgehogs)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: orange county, NC
Posts: 222
joshsmithers is a glorious beacon of lightjoshsmithers is a glorious beacon of lightjoshsmithers is a glorious beacon of lightjoshsmithers is a glorious beacon of lightjoshsmithers is a glorious beacon of lightjoshsmithers is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

After reading this thread, this is what I hear:

Quote:
I don't like this rule. Change it.
What is this? Complaining wiil get you nowhere and I doubt this rule will be changed. Yeah, so there have been really nice matches that could've bee close if it weren't for that 1/16" bit of bumber that broke G22, but that's life. I quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by robostangs548 View Post
This game was built around penalties... we will just have to learn to live with it i guess...
Next to Copioli, this guy makes the most sense. (Thank you.) C'mon, y'all, hate the players, not the game.
__________________


Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99% perspiration, which is why engineers sometimes smell really bad.
  #43   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 14:07
mathking's Avatar
mathking mathking is offline
Coach/Faculty Advisor
AKA: Greg King
FRC #1014 (Dublin Robotics aka "Bad Robots")
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 642
mathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond reputemathking has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

I haven't been to any matches, so all I have to go on is videos I have watched online. It does seem like a very large number of penalties are being called. This should at least cause the GDC to take a look at the rule.

I do think that lessening the penalty in autonomous mode would be a good idea. It seems as though this year's game was designed to try to get more teams to try to do autonomous operations. Having a big penalty is just going to discourage the least experienced teams from trying to do much in hybrid mode.
__________________
Thank you Bad Robots for giving me the chance to coach this team.
Rookie All-Star Award: 2003 Buckeye
Engineering Inspiration Award: 2004 Pittsburgh, 2014 Crossroads
Chairman's Award: 2005 Pittsburgh, 2009 Buckeye, 2012 Queen City
Team Spirit Award: 2007 Buckeye, 2015 Queen City
Woodie Flowers Award: 2009 Buckeye
Dean's List Finalists: Phil Aufdencamp (2010), Lindsey Fox (2011), Kyle Torrico (2011), Alix Bernier (2013), Deepthi Thumuluri (2015)
Gracious Professionalism Award: 2013 Buckeye
Innovation in Controls Award: 2015 Pittsburgh
Event Finalists: 2012 CORI, 2016 Buckeye
  #44   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 14:09
Billfred's Avatar
Billfred Billfred is offline
...and you can't! teach! that!
FRC #5402 (Iron Kings); no team (AndyMark)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: The Land of the Kokomese, IN
Posts: 8,556
Billfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond reputeBillfred has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
I just don't get it. You have 30+ inches to figure out if the congestion will hurt you. Don't fully cross the line if you think you might have to go backwards. There are too many penalties because people are causing the penalties by not following the rules (in most cases).

This rule was clear from the start, never changed, and gives us 30+" of leway .. I just don't get why people are attacking this rule.
I honestly think Copioli nailed it. We'll be nailing down drivers on Thursday at Chesapeake, and I'll be training them to make turns with a bit more technique. More specifically, I'll be telling them to get well clear of the lane divider before turning, especially in traffic. Even if getting closer to the field barriers is a bit slower, I do not want us getting these penalties. The more you can be sure about your clearance, the better.
__________________
William "Billfred" Leverette - Gamecock/Jessica Boucher victim/Marketing & Sales Specialist at AndyMark

2004-2006: FRC 1293 (D5 Robotics) - Student, Mentor, Coach
2007-2009: FRC 1618 (Capital Robotics) - Mentor, Coach
2009-2013: FRC 2815 (Los Pollos Locos) - Mentor, Coach - Palmetto '09, Peachtree '11, Palmetto '11, Palmetto '12
2010: FRC 1398 (Keenan Robo-Raiders) - Mentor - Palmetto '10
2014-2016: FRC 4901 (Garnet Squadron) - Co-Founder and Head Bot Coach - Orlando '14, SCRIW '16
2017-: FRC 5402 (Iron Kings) - Mentor

94 events (more than will fit in a ChiefDelphi signature), 14 seasons, over 61,000 miles, and still on a mission from Bob.

Rule #1: Do not die. Rule #2: Be respectful. Rule #3: Be safe. Rule #4: Follow the handbook.
  #45   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-03-2008, 14:32
cbale2000's Avatar
cbale2000 cbale2000 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Chris Bale
FRC #5712 (Gray Matter)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Saginaw, MI
Posts: 955
cbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond reputecbale2000 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Rule G22 needs to be changed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
Honestly, if you really really absolutely hated this rule, just switch it from an instant penalty to a timed penalty like the endzone encroachment last year. You get a fair warning but still have leeway to sneak a bumper across th plane by accident.
I think I like this solution better than any of the other ones I've seen so far, something that would give you a few seconds to correct your mistake, instead of x amount of inches leeway. It would keep the intention of the rule, without being so strict.
__________________
2005-2008: FRC 703 Phoenix - Driver
2009-2016: FRC 703 Phoenix - Mentor
2017-????: FRC 5712 Gray Matter - Mentor
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
G22 Direction of Traffic Hilarity Kevin Sevcik Rules/Strategy 16 17-01-2008 22:30
problems with G22 JMH Electrical 2 19-01-2005 20:52
VB changed my capitalization! Greg Ross CD Forum Support 3 25-02-2004 15:42
Rule G11 and Springs Rule mtaman02 Technical Discussion 3 23-01-2004 17:43
A Changed F.I.R.S.T Vin211 General Forum 0 26-09-2001 22:39


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi