Shooters vs Arms

[pafwl]

I have read pretty much all of the post on this thread and I am impressed with many of the arguments

Just so you know where I am comming from our robot is a shooter. It however does not use pnematics to "shoot" "launch" the ball. Go to www.frc272.com and maybe you can figure out how we do it. Look under "We are LC" "2008 season". Anyway our robot also employes an alternate aparatus that can effectivelly remove the ball from the "monkey bars" "rack" whatever it is you call it.

However I am not at all saying this is the way to do it. We just like that fact that we can move on the fly and shoot. Also since we can remove the ball from the rack using an alternate aparatus we like it. Anyway

I have been lookin at a whole lot of video of other robots and I believe it just comes down to speed, quickness of picking up the ball and if you are a lifter doing it as fast as possible. If you have all of that I do not care how you do it you are getting it done fast and often and probably can keep up with anyone.

I also read some threads about it is easy to block a "shooter" "launcher" and while I would agree with that. I would recommend to teams you avoid it. Just as an example I had one of those moments and walked in front of our completed robot just as it fired. That ball almost took my head off. In retrospect it was very funny but the forces of that fire took a 210 pound man and put him on the floor. I just think if a lifter decided to get in the way and took a shoot either the robot may sustain fatal damage our it might be out for the count if you catch my drift.

Any who I think in the end if you built a great robot no matter how it scores if it is quick, accurate and efficient. Oh and a killer autonomous/hybrid would not hurt it really wont matter.

[deshirider430]

what about 612's shooter arm lifter? http://youtube.com/watch?v=VbGBxKjMlh0

In our early discussions we wanted to be able to; knock the ball off, pick up the ball quickly, shoot the ball over the overpass without stopping, and place the ball at the end. Guess we ended up doing all of them.

[TheOtherGuy]

I'm still waiting to see a robot pull a "BOUNCE-CATCH" maneuver. By putting enough backspin on the ball when launched, it could, potentially, bounce into a standstill so the robot can catch it again.

I know this is highly improbable with the crowded field and such, but it would still be the neatest and most efficient thing ever!

[Scott358]

I haven't seen anything with back spin, but I did see a video of a bot who drives under the overpass in autonoumous, hits the ball up and forward, drives forward and catches it off the overpass. I don't know how relaible it is, but in the video it was pretty cool.

[MrForbes]

oh, like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwfT5V6fYRQ

[Zuhaib Ali]

In my opinion, a combination of a roller claw and shooter will out score a robot with a arm or regular shooter.

[Scott358]

Originally Posted by squirrel

oh, like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwfT5V6fYRQ

That's not the one I was referring to, but that makes at least 2 that do it!

[TheOtherGuy]

So... anyone's mind changed? Are the results from the 1st week of regionals surprising to anyone, of is there anything you weren't expecting?

Any insights that pertain to this thread regarding that 1st week of regionals?

[hipsterjr]

In the NJ finials there were two shooters ( can't remember #'s). One had some problems. But the other one blew the TB and the arm bots away. Doesn't really change my mind, shooters rule!

[T3_1565]

shooters are really good. Yet I saw two really good arm bots and 1114 is both a shooter and an arm (more shooter than arm yes, but still).

But overall I'm impressed with all the designs so far.. these regional was awesome!!!!

[Diriye]

After this first week, it seems as though the shooters were clearly better than the arm-bots. When you matched up the best shooters vs. the best arm-bots, the shooters were much more efficient at hurdling, and if they had a decent pickup system, they were usually one of the best teams there (i.e. 1625, 1114)*. Having said that, there were many more arm-bots or "looks-like-an-arm" bots at the regionals, and the average arm-bots were usually better than the average shooters, as shooting the trackball seems to be much harder than using an arm.

*Yes, I'm quite aware that there are very few, if any, teams like 1625 or 1114.

P.S. Taking 20 seconds to pick up a trackball tends to screw you over...

[ALIBI]

I would add to your comments (Diriye) that a shooter with a simple bar to knock down a trackball from underneath was much faster than an arm bot that had to raise its' arm above the crossover to knock down a trackball.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Diriye

After this first week, it seems as though the shooters were clearly better than the arm-bots. When you matched up the best shooters vs. the best arm-bots, the shooters were much more efficient at hurdling, and if they had a decent pickup system, they were usually one of the best teams there (i.e. 1625, 1114)*. Having said that, there were many more arm-bots or "looks-like-an-arm" bots at the regionals, and the average arm-bots were usually better than the average shooters, as shooting the trackball seems to be much harder than using an arm.

*Yes, I'm quite aware that there are very few, if any, teams like 1625 or 1114.

P.S. Taking 20 seconds to pick up a trackball tends to screw you over...

Are you also aware that 1625 and 1114 could both fit into either the arm category or the shooter category?

I think the robots that dominate will be a combination of arm and shooter. Call it an "arm-mounted shooter", if you will. Varying angle for different shots, quick pickup and raising to fire, and higher shooter distinguish this class of robots.

They also effectively end the "arm vs. shooter" debate by having both.

[Psychoflood]

Hipster,

The finalists you were referring to from the NJ regional are Team 25, Raider Robotics, and Team 103, Cybersonics. They were the two shooters that won the finals in NJ. IMO, it would seem shooters are better than arm or "looks-like-an-arm-bots" because they're just faster, although some of them such as 25 sometimes seemed to have problems with ball possession, and 103 missed quite a lot (hitting bars, shooter deployed from a crash, etc.) However, both teams did a great job and congratulations!

-John

[s_forbes]

Originally Posted by EricH

Are you also aware that 1625 and 1114 could both fit into either the arm category or the shooter category?

I think the robots that dominate will be a combination of arm and shooter. Call it an "arm-mounted shooter", if you will. Varying angle for different shots, quick pickup and raising to fire, and higher shooter distinguish this class of robots.

They also effectively end the "arm vs. shooter" debate by having both.

I think it depends on your definition of an arm bot and a shooter bot. To me it seems that any robot that is able to 'toss' the ball into the air without reaching higher than the overpass qualifies as a shooter robot. The debates revolving around arm/shooter robots were mostly based on the fact that 'arm robots' can reach above the overpass to remove/place balls.

So, in my opinion, 1114 and 1625 were not arm bots, just shooter robots. Their intake systems are what made them perform so well.