Competition Professionalism

[EricH]

Just remember, the competition is not about corporate sponsors. Yes, they help, but the competition is not all about them. You've got a lot of high schoolers too.

The competition is not all about the students either. Dave said something about that a while ago (I think the last time the mentor/student debate came up, or the time before that).

The competition is about the teams. Corporate sponsors, high school students, engineers, administrators, parents, and mentors all have their place. The hardest part is balancing all the elements.

Sometimes, the best attractant for a sponsor/mentor is that they can feel young again. That said, the same thing can also be a repellent.

I don't know here. I have mixed feelings.

[henryBsick]

I am using the corporate sponsor example much like a 'bar' that should be at par with our 'professional' actions.
I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.
Yes, it is a huge time killer, which I see as a very large problem. I have seen one too many a time out get extend well beyond any reasonable sanctioned length because of dances going on.

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?

For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am using the corporate sponsor example much like a 'bar' that should be at par with our 'professional' actions.
I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.
Yes, it is a huge time killer, which I see as a very large problem. I have seen one too many a time out get extend well beyond any reasonable sanctioned length because of dances going on.

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?

For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

I don't see the line danceing as anything different than cheerlearers at a football game.

These regionals are supposed to be an 'event' ... and I see no problems with young people (and some of us old farts) having fun.

[Danny McC]

I have no problem with the dancing. It does give time for repairs sometimes. And also, first is supposed to be professional, yes. But the dancing that happens at the competitions is just high school students being high school students. It shows a lot of team spirit I think. There is an award for team spirit and a lot of the people who win are the ones who are dancings and doing all those things.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am not against having a good time, I just don't feel that a dance marathon in a professional setting is appropriate.

I agree with you that is not appropriate for a professional setting..... The thing is that we arent a professional setting. FIRST is like nothing else around, we have serious competition, while still having fun. Teams arent professional, remember most are a high school club. Do you think a high school football game is a professional setting?

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I guess when it really comes down to it, the thing that frustrates me most is when a high schooler is excited about a robotics competition coming up... WHY are they excited?
For me, it sure as anything was the robots and competition.

Why does it matter?? FIRST isn't all about the robots. Competitions are a chance for you to show off all of what you accomplished. It is also about meeting new people and having fun, while still being respectful.

If you took away all the dancing and other things, it will just make the competition boreing, and people wont look forward to them.


I am guessing that you are a volunteer for tournaments, and you dont like the dancing because it takes up time and makes you get home later. I'm not sure if this is true, and I dont think that there is anything wrong with that. I volunteered at the FTC tournament in Appleton last week. I had to hand out crystals, and it did get boreing. I dont mind how long it takes though, because its all about the teams participating. I also know as being a part of FLL and FRC since I was in 4th grade that I like that kind of stuff while participating. I understand where you are coming from, and I had this problem when I started volunteering, but I remembered how much fun I had with it. Look at it from a teams perspective, it really will make volunteering at the competition more enjoyable.
Joey

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

I agree with you that is not appropriate for a professional setting..... The thing is that we arent a professional setting. FIRST is like nothing else around, we have serious competition, while still having fun. Teams arent professional, remember most are a high school club. Do you think a high school football game is a professional setting?



Why does it matter?? FIRST isn't all about the robots. Competitions are a chance for you to show off all of what you accomplished. It is also about meeting new people and having fun, while still being respectful.

If you took away all the dancing and other things, it will just make the competition boreing, and people wont look forward to them.


I am guessing that you are a volunteer for tournaments, and you dont like the dancing because it takes up time and makes you get home later. I'm not sure if this is true, and I dont think that there is anything wrong with that. I volunteered at the FTC tournament in Appleton last week. I had to hand out crystals, and it did get boreing. I dont mind how long it takes though, because its all about the teams participating. I also know as being a part of FLL and FRC since I was in 4th grade that I like that kind of stuff while participating. I understand where you are coming from, and I had this problem when I started volunteering, but I remembered how much fun I had with it. Look at it from a teams perspective, it really will make volunteering at the competition more enjoyable.
Joey

I am a volunteer in the mentor sense. Team #125 and various other teams in the Boston area. I have also been involved since 7th grade lego league.
For this discussion, we can assume that I don't care at what time I get home.
I am lividly afraid that there are kids out there who go to the events and have nothing, and had nothing, to do with the robot. It is only a social event. Where is the inspiration and recognition in that?

Comparing a football game to FIRST is probably a little bit off, like you said FIRST isn't like anything else around.

Originally Posted by Romino90

wheres the fun with out the dancing ..why don't we have halo tournaments instead during the brake between matches LOL

You are more or less proving my point.

Originally Posted by TdorTheBnator

I have no problem with the dancing. It does give time for repairs sometimes. And also, first is supposed to be professional, yes. But the dancing that happens at the competitions is just high school students being high school students. It shows a lot of team spirit I think. There is an award for team spirit and a lot of the people who win are the ones who are dancings and doing all those things.

The time for repairs is sanctioned in the game and rules itself. Extensions past that are not provided for in the rules. One 6 minute period is still 6 minutes even if the YMCA may be 7 minutes long.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I hope we can continue to celebrate FIRST in the manner that we do - inviting everyone to be a part of the celebration and encouraging everyone to have a great time. The competition, the music, the dance lines, the awesome MCs and game announcers, the interactions of the teams, the visiting guests which include VIPs and potential sponsors. I hope these celebrations continue to reflect the increasing impact of the goals of FIRST, the influence of Gracious Professionalism, and the affect on the lives of everyone involved.

Dancing at FIRST competitions is a great way for everyone to enjoy the event. If you look at the faces of the judges, they are enjoying being a part of the celebration and fun as much as anyone.

I have never picketed in my life but if we were to stop the chicken dance, I might have to wear a placard that says: save the chicken dance!

Jane, I am just as excited as the next guy for robotic competitions. I really fear though that a lot of the students celebrating are doing so in the dark. I don't think that a majority of kids are actually gaining any insight to science and technology. As FIRST continues to grow, we cannot only be focused on the quantitative analysis, but the qualitative effect it has on each and every student.
5 students who gain an engineering education from FIRST is better than 100 who don't learn a thing.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Jane, I am just as excited as the next guy for robotic competitions. I really fear though that a lot of the students celebrating are doing so in the dark. I don't think that a majority of kids are actually gaining any insight to science and technology. As FIRST continues to grow, we cannot only be focused on the quantitative analysis, but the qualitative effect it has on each and every student.
5 students who gain an engineering education from FIRST is better than 100 who don't learn a thing.

Oh.
Maybe we are not on the same page to begin with. What you are expressing in this quote that I've included in my post is the impact of science and technology on the students. The effect of the FIRST experience on them. If I have this wrong, correct me.

To me, the competitions are the culmination of the build experience of the team. Yes, there are people who drop by an outreach event and a competition and they are inspired by the robots/the competition. But the teams are made up of team members who have worked together to create the robot and prepare it for the competition. Therein lies a big part of the inspiration, the impact of the experience on the students and where they will take that experience in their careers.

I can honestly see a thread started to address your concerns about the FIRST effect on students. I see that as a different topic than the celebration and dancing at a FIRST Robotics competition.

[Alalea]

I think that a lot of FIRST is having fun. If we have to stand rigidly through the entire thing, where's the fun? Sure, there's work, but there has to be some fun in it, too!

[Akash Rastogi]

Like said above, FIRST is serious competition while having fun. That is why Woodie says that "It will be the hardest fun you will ever have."

That pretty much says it all.

[Drwurm]

All these teams have been working feverishly for 6 weeks, and this is the final culmination of all that work. Sounds like the perfect dancing situation. Even engineers at major companies celebrate together after a successful project.

Also regionals might be the only time some of us ever get to dance without being laughed at!

[galewind]

The way I see a regional competition as a celebration of all of our hard work. It's a big party with excitement, competition, cooperation, and prizes. Thousands of individuals commit an enormous amount of time and energy into getting everyone to perform the same task (in different ways), and we learn from each other and take so much from the program.

Dancing together is another way to celebrate as a group, and I think it's something that should be encouraged because it helps bring people together, and that's a large part of FIRST's mission. Hearing the word "professional" in this context makes me think of sitting in a cold business office all day behind a cubicle wall -- and I just don't feel that FIRST is about that.

[Danny McC]

And I dont see how dancing relates to them not being interested in the goals FIRST is trying to set. They may be involved in the build but when it comes to the competition they may not be involved. And sometimes the ones who dance the most also help with the robots. Example: I told my friend to be in the mascot area today for our first match where she had been dancing the whole time. And her response to me was I will be there if it doesnt interfere with my pit shift. The dancing at competitions is a way to relieve the stress from the six week build season.

[Uberbots]

What happens at the competition reflects very little of what happens inside of the robotics room. The competition is 2 days out of an entire year that you cannot see.
Your point is that having the competition as a social event is a bad thing because... dancing doesnt promote engineering or science (unless you want to get into the physics and chemical influences that cause dancing to occur, but thats beyond the scope of this thread)
The thing is though, some of the most engineering-inspired students on the team look forward to the competitions because the whole point of it is having fun. Like any competition, the point is to win, and if you lose you still had fun trying. Not every student who is at the competition can be serious- even if they want to- because there isn't enough room in the pits, or there are already too many people on the field or whatever.
think about it. if they give a SPIRIT AWARD out at the competitions, wouldn't you think the people at FIRST are promoting the idea of dancing you drop?

[henryBsick]

I think a lot of people are assuming a fair bit of information... I will try to correct and bring this up to speed.
I am a fan of cheering, a bigger fan of having a good time. Cheer your brains out, 222 '03 National Team Spirit; trust me I know what getting excited and motivated is.
Apart from that, the competition has been hindered by the dancing. You say "why not?" I say "to keep the integrity of the game play together." Time to cool down a robot between back to back matches is provided for, as are timeouts. Having a good time can go too far sometimes. Without crossing the 'office dull' line I still think dancing is far too unprofessional for the regionals. Cheer and go crazy from the stands don't bring it to the field.
As the thread has moved along, I have honed my initial statement and question. My view of the dancing that occurs has always been the stereotypical 'kid who doesn't do things' kind of view. Please don't jump on me for what I just said, I am well aware that there are kids who enjoy themselves in such a manner that have a wide range of of roles on a team. When the hard facts come down to it, there are some kids who don't have a function on a team and are just at the events to hang out. I have seen it myself, nothing will sway my opinion on this. I am not in any way giving a magnitude to it, but it exists.

[IndySam]

A regional is a celebration of the hard work and effort that has gone on during the build season and dancing is appropriate at celebrations.