Competition Professionalism

[CarterM]

At the Wisconsin Regional last year, some of our sponsors were dancing......not the kids...........

[henryBsick]

I think a lot of people are assuming a fair bit of information... I will try to correct and bring this up to speed.
I am a fan of cheering, a bigger fan of having a good time. Cheer your brains out, 222 '03 National Team Spirit; trust me I know what getting excited and motivated is.
Apart from that, the competition has been hindered by the dancing. You say "why not?" I say "to keep the integrity of the game play together." Time to cool down a robot between back to back matches is provided for, as are timeouts. Having a good time can go too far sometimes. Without crossing the 'office dull' line I still think dancing is far too unprofessional for the regionals. Cheer and go crazy from the stands don't bring it to the field.
As the thread has moved along, I have honed my initial statement and question. My view of the dancing that occurs has always been the stereotypical 'kid who doesn't do things' kind of view. Please don't jump on me for what I just said, I am well aware that there are kids who enjoy themselves in such a manner that have a wide range of of roles on a team. When the hard facts come down to it, there are some kids who don't have a function on a team and are just at the events to hang out. I have seen it myself, nothing will sway my opinion on this. I am not in any way giving a magnitude to it, but it exists.

[SL8]

As already stated, what exactly are you talking about.

[IndySam]

A regional is a celebration of the hard work and effort that has gone on during the build season and dancing is appropriate at celebrations.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I think a lot of people are assuming a fair bit of information... I will try to correct and bring this up to speed.
I am a fan of cheering, a bigger fan of having a good time. Cheer your brains out, 222 '03 National Team Spirit; trust me I know what getting excited and motivated is.
Apart from that, the competition has been hindered by the dancing. You say "why not?" I say "to keep the integrity of the game play together." Time to cool down a robot between back to back matches is provided for, as are timeouts. Having a good time can go too far sometimes. Without crossing the 'office dull' line I still think dancing is far too unprofessional for the regionals. Cheer and go crazy from the stands don't bring it to the field.
As the thread has moved along, I have honed my initial statement and question. My view of the dancing that occurs has always been the stereotypical 'kid who doesn't do things' kind of view. Please don't jump on me for what I just said, I am well aware that there are kids who enjoy themselves in such a manner that have a wide range of of roles on a team. When the hard facts come down to it, there are some kids who don't have a function on a team and are just at the events to hang out. I have seen it myself, nothing will sway my opinion on this. I am not in any way giving a magnitude to it, but it exists.

You said yourself that you would trade 5 inspired students for 100 uninspired ones right? I would submit that many more student are inspired by the energy and excitement at a competition (the dancing is definitely part of the overall atmosphere), than are turned off by it (poll results seem to agree with me).

Despite you saying nothing will sway your opinion I will trek on anyway. I am very curious as to what the role of a PR member of a team is at a competition? How about a finance team member? Animation? I know a few members of my team (different members than the last post) that I'm sure you definitely would have pegged as "just socializing" if you saw them at our regional last year. You wanna know why? Because they were. These were members of our PR team that spent a weekend handing out buttons and "hanging out".

While these girls had worked on our t-shirts and buttons for the competition they hadn't been at our build site for more than about 4 hours in the whole six weeks. So these girls just came along for the ride and are the uninspired socializers you talked about right? Wrong. Two of the three are on the team again, and this year they're more involved. They still haven't touched the robot, but they showed up at our initial brainstorm/strategy meets, made our PR a bigger deal than last year and had a lot more respect for the robot and the guys and girls working on it than they did the year before. So did we inspire them to become engineers? Nope, but I'm fairly certain we accomplished one of the major goals of FIRST.

If you truly want to change the culture towards one that respects science and engineering (Dean has mentioned this in multiple speeches), then you need to inspire both groups of people, those that will be scientists and engineers and those that won't.

[Justin Montois]

I'm trying to think of an example where "Fun" can meet professional almost seasmlessly and I have to say the best I can come up with (besides FIRST) would be Google. They are a great company and they have recently been voted the top company to work for in the country. Read these..

From the top ten reasons to work for Google

1. Lend a helping hand. With millions of visitors every month, Google has become an essential part of everyday life - like a good friend - connecting people with the information they need to live great lives.

2. Life is beautiful. Being a part of something that matters and working on products in which you can believe is remarkably fulfilling.

3. Appreciation is the best motivation, so we've created a fun and inspiring workspace you'll be glad to be a part of, including on-site doctor and dentist; massage and yoga; professional development opportunities; on-site day care; shoreline running trails; and plenty of snacks to get you through the day.

4. Work and play are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to code and pass the puck at the same time. Emphasis Mine

7. Good company everywhere you look. Googlers range from former neurosurgeons, CEOs, and U.S. puzzle champions to alligator wrestlers and former-Marines. No matter what their backgrounds Googlers make for interesting cube mates.

10. There is such a thing as a free lunch after all. In fact we have them every day: healthy, yummy, and made with love.

I think what I find inherently wrong with your post is that your term of "professional" is becoming old fashioned. Maybe dancing while playing with robots is exactly what professional should be. I love the atmosphere at the Regionals and it would be a shame if anything was to change.

It's not like kids are dancing while important speakers are talking, when it's time to be "professional" we are and when it's time to go crazy and have some fun, no one does it better then the kids in FIRST.

[dlavery]

As a member of the federal government, I work with some of the most staid, uptight, rigid, button-down bureaucrats around. I asked a few of them, as government professionals, if they thought this type of celebration was counterproductive to attracting the "right kind" of corporate support. Their response?

"Any organization that would be offended by the celebration that occurs at a FIRST competition is an organization that you would never want as a sponsor anyway."

That works for me. Party on.

-dave



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[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am worried about the students who "fall through the cracks" if you will and are not involved in any way.

I'm going to rewind a bit back to this quote.

This thread is a little slippery to me, it moves around touching on different points.

This seems to be consistent though worded differently in a few posts.
I've thought about the different wordings and posts and I've thought about inspiration. Inspiration doesn't have a limit. There isn't a timer that is set and in the time frame before it goes off, the person will be inspired or else. Often, inspiration occurs during team time, during build while accomplishing various jobs that have to be done. That's the inspiration that can be easily seen and observed. The students who are on the drive team are easily seen and observed. The students who are part of the presentation team and interview with the judges are easily seen and observed. The students hanging out in the stands, not so much. They are seen and observed as a group representing the team but they are not able to be discerned as to what their contributions are to the team.

And - the funny thing about inspiration - it may occur way after that timer has gone off. Maybe after Atlanta and into summer. Maybe into college. Maybe after college and into career. Inspiration is not finite. Mentors think about these things and talk about these things, discuss them - often. The students who fall between the cracks. How can we motivate them or do we? How can we help them or do we? Team building, team development, team work? What?

And then, something wonderful can happen all on its own...a student who comes on the trip to the regional or Atlanta and seemingly doesn't contribute anything - makes an enormous impact on a summer outreach program with young children who have difficult lives. Very difficult lives. Very few fellow team members are available to view/observe this impact - they are busy with their summer activities. But a mentor and a small handful of team mates are there to view it and to see inspiration blossom. For their team mate, for the young children, and for the adults that shared the moment.

I understand the 'hanging out' concept - but I rarely doubt that inspiration once planted will grow in its own time.

[Zyik]

We are the next generation. We are the ones who are going to decide exactly what it means to be professional.

If you want that to be the same, buttoned down 9-5 job 5 days a week, then thats your decision. However, as a member of this generation I want to give my .02 cents into that, and I'd like that to change.

Every generation changes what it means to work and to play. FIRST does more then just build robots, it inspires us to do more. And if I want my engineering job to involve some dancing, that is my decision.

[Qbranch]

Are you trying to say american businesses are austere, cold, and devoid of life?

If they want lively, creative engineers... they should look no further than a group of roboticists who can be dancing at one moment then fixing a robot or writing software the very next.

-q

[Koko Ed]

I am the most rhythemless black man on the face of the planet and I loathe dancing. I think there is a public ordinance in the New York State legislature banning me from doing it in public to keep other from suffering from the smae disease. That being said the dancing and fun part of FIRST is what makes FIRST the amazing display that it is.
Our team had each and every member write an essay about what FIRST is to each of us. If I may I would like to borrow a couple of excerpts from it. FIRST what I think a competition is:

It was like a big party wrapped around a remarkable sporting event that was like nothing ever seen before with its distinctive strategies and alliance structures with an Oscar ceremony latched onto the back end for good measure.

Nothing sells FIRST better than a FIRST competition. And it's not just the robots or the togetherness of the teams or even the competition itself. Alot of it is the atmosphere that flows freely in the arena and infects everyone in the arena in their own special way.
FIRST is different things to different people. It used to bug when when every kid wasn't going to grow up to be a Kim O'Toole or an Adrienne Emerson or a John V. Nuen. I figured we failed somehow and they just were wasting their time on the team. but now I realize that they were getting something out of it. Whether that be seeking to teach others about the virtues of science and technology or just having a good time they didn't walk away uninspired. Everyone's heart just beat a little different and they take from the competition something different.
Both the students and the mentors. Or as I stated at the end of my essay:

What I truly believe make FIRST so unique and so fabulous is that it give students the opportunity to try on the clothes of responsibility and expectation. To look into the possible future that perhaps awaits them while at the same time giving the adult mentors a chance to recapture the excitement youthful discovery and sense of exuberant joy that permeates throughout the lives of the young that help fuel the drive that led them to where they are this day to help the next generation reach their potential.

[catsylve]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Nothing sells FIRST better than a FIRST competition. And it's not just the robots or the togetherness of the teams or even the competition itself. Alot of it is the atmosphere that flows freely in the arena and infects everyone in the arena in their own special way.
FIRST is different things to different people. It used to bug when when every kid wasn't going to grow up to be a Kim O'Toole or an Adrienne Emerson or a John V. Nuen. I figured we failed somehow and they just were wasting their time on the team. but now I realize that they were getting something out of it. Whether that be seeking to teach others about the virtues of science and technology or just having a good time they didn't walk away uninspired. Everyone's heart just beat a little different and they take from the competition something different.
Both the students and the mentors. Or as I stated at the end of my essay:

What I truly believe make FIRST so unique and so fabulous is that it give students the opportunity to try on the clothes of responsibility and expectation. To look into the possible future that perhaps awaits them while at the same time giving the adult mentors a chance to recapture the excitement youthful discovery and sense of exuberant joy that permeates throughout the lives of the young that help fuel the drive that led them to where they are this day to help the next generation reach their potential.

Very well stated.

I would like to add that we are talking about some young people here who are not comfortable in the typical athletic event setting, but want to have many of the same experiences. I have had a number of students tell me that being on a FIRST team is literally the first team they have ever been on.

The regionals that I have seen are allowing these kids to celebrate in an appropriate way. I personally experience a great deal of satisfaction when I see a young person who has been afraid to show that type of emotion in public suddenly racing across the field with joy or relaxing and dancing.

This is a part of the way in which lives are changed by FIRST and I think sponsors know this.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am lividly afraid that there are kids out there who go to the events and have nothing, and had nothing, to do with the robot. It is only a social event. Where is the inspiration and recognition in that.

How do you know that those kids dancing in the stands had nothing to do with the robot? Perhaps two of them assisted in the design and build of the manipulator, but are in the stands so as to not overcrowd the pit. Others may have the job of scouting the event, and are using the break to clear their minds. Maybe 3 of them have returned to the stands after their award-winning Chairmans presentation.

Granted there are always problems with getting students involved. On larger teams I suspect it is harder than on smaller ones, as some of the kids tend to get lost in the crowd. There are generally 3 groups of students

1. the core group that is always there, whenever the shop is open
2. another bunch of very dedicated kids, who also participate in other activities, and come to robotics whenever they are able
3. a group that you just aren't sure when you will see them

Of course we want to minimize the number of students in that last group. But perhaps the fun of the competitions, the cameraderie they have with other team members, the other more "social" aspects of the team, are what keep them coming. And somewhere along the line, it clicks for them, and suddenly they're in group 1. Or maybe they stay in group 3 all the while they're on the team, but it gives them a taste for what engineering and technology is all about, and they make a college decision based on that. Inspiration comes in many flavors.

And personally, I've seen far too many professional gatherings that could have been improved immensely by a line dance!

[synth3tk]

Dave's quote puts it best. If you think the people you're bringing to the competition would think lowly of the program because of the "kewl" part then you don't want them as sponsors.

And I don't think that many people are UBER-MAD that the dancing went over by one minute.

[Richard Wallace]

I'm a detail-oriented nerd, and not a good dancer. Not even a so-so dancer.

But I agree with Dave, Ed, Cathy, and many, many others who see the importance of celebration. Paying attention while executives and politicians speak to the crowd is a form of celebration, but dancing is much more immediate. Orders of magnitude more immediate.

At St. Louis yesterday, our field crew worked hard to get a few minutes ahead of schedule, so we could put all the team mascots out on the field for ten minutes of dancing right before the finals. The crowd seemed to enjoy it, and the teams still competing were probably glad to get the time without using one of their time-outs.

When we're doing things right, everyone at an FRC event should feel like dancing, even those who aren't good at it.