To Disney or not to Disney... that is the question

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Posted by Ken Patton.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 4/19/2000 5:00 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals at Disney - Negatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:30 PM MST:




I agree on the cost issues - we paid a lot this year for rooms and airfares, even though we were on the ball and registered early.

Another negative - and this could be converted into a positive - is that for all the 'bigtime' status of the 'largest non-Disney event at WDW' we get very little promotion of the whole thing by ABC and Disney. It doesn't seem to me that Disney treats it as 'their' event, with high profile Disney/ABC/ESPN promotion of it. When will we see daily promos of the event on ABC and ESPN like they do for other sporting events? When will they do it live on Wide World of Sports?

Ken

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Posted by P.J. Baker.

Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.

Posted on 4/19/2000 5:44 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Nationals at Disney - Negatives posted by Ken Patton on 4/19/2000 5:00 PM MST:



: I agree on the cost issues - we paid a lot this year for rooms and airfares, even though we were on the ball and registered early.

It would be really nice if Disney would give us some sort of a break on the pricing. I know that if you book your own trip for the same dates w/o using the 'FIRST' package it is cheaper (no meal tickets) and your park hopper pass never expires (mine still has two days on it that I plan to use next year). I can see why Disney doesn't give us a break though because we are going during the peak season and not spending that much money in the parks, since we're all in the parking lot most of the time. Maybe if the main event were in the fall, before Thanksgiving, they'd cut us a better deal since it's off peak. I'm sure that this would cause some sort of logistical nightmare and we'd lose a lot of football and soccer players, but I sure wouldn't mind doing this in the fall.



: Another negative - and this could be converted into a positive - is that for all the 'bigtime' status of the 'largest non-Disney event at WDW' we get very little promotion of the whole thing by ABC and Disney. It doesn't seem to me that Disney treats it as 'their' event, with high profile Disney/ABC/ESPN promotion of it. When will we see daily promos of the event on ABC and ESPN like they do for other sporting events? When will they do it live on Wide World of Sports?

I really don't understand this! I've come across the national Cheerleading Championships at least three time in the last 2 months on ESPN. This event is also held at WDW. Everytime I pass it on the dial, I wonder why I'm not seeing robots instead.

P.J.

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Posted by Michael Martus.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.

Posted on 4/20/2000 4:03 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals at Disney - Negatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:30 PM MST:



I agree to all of what you have said.

For the price we pay and lack of park time the cost of the event eats up a large chunk of the budget.

Think of how hard the students work and (in our case) only had two full days in the parks on a 5 day parkhopper pass.

I would rather have say.....the Silverdome in Pontiac. Hey! I hear it is for sale. Dean could buy it as an investment and use as he sees fit.

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Posted by Sam Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 4/22/2000 2:38 AM MST


In Reply to: Nationals at Disney - Negatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:30 PM MST:



Andy, this is a great topic! I especially enjoyed talking to you this week. )

: 1. Transportation costs... Florida is not centrally located (airline costs vs. long bus rides).

Out to lunch. Airfare to Orlando is one of the advantages here. Every airline runs specials.

: 2. High hotel costs, due to the nice facilites of Disney, and the heightened demand of April.

Agree, but the costs are due to Disney being in the booking process. Packages can be had for much less.

: 3. Off-Disney property transportation difficulties... limited bus times, options, and simply too far away.

Agree. The solution as I see it is to not to book through Disney, and rent your own transportation. I have a post about this in the 'alternatives' thread.

: 4. Partially used park hopper passes... using a day for simply going to dinner in Epcot is wasteful.

Agree. I think a lot of passes are just getting sold to scalpers, or given away.

: 5. Food tickets... no good if staying off Disney property... OK for on property.

If you want to eat Disney food for 4 days... I'm happier with the selection off-park.

I think $10 for a wiener is... they should wear masks to take your money.

: 6. Disney parks... a distraction to students?

Agree

: 7. Disney parks... a reason for school administrators and corporate middle management to think that all we do is 'play'.

Way agree. In fact I wonder if the Disney trip is the reason a lot of schools aren't in FIRST. If I was a school administrator, I doubt I would want to bring a plan to my board that included a trip to WDW for high school kids.... It's just easier to forget about it.

: 8. The temporary stadium and pit facilites are not as good as alternatives (rentable arena or dome).

Lukewarm agree. But boy did they improve things this year...

: 9. The playing fields are inferior to most Regional events... due to the temporary setup.

I don't think so...

: 10. That 'small world' song.

YEEEEAAAAAHHHHH! WHY did you have to mention that... I took me two weeks to get rid of it last time!

: ...others?

: Do you agree, or am I out to lunch?

: Andy B.

I have this picture in my head of a FIRST field in the Vehicle Assembly Building at Kennedy, with a shuttle hanging from a crane overhead.....

NAH, too ambitous. NASA could never close that building that long. But still cool to think about...

As a couple of people mentioned here, the publicity thing with Disney is pretty much NOT happening. Why, I don't know, because if they wanted to, I'm sure they could a magnificent job of it.

I wonder what more NASA could do for us? They do have their own TV network...

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Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Student on team #168, The Flashbacks, from North Miami Beach Senior High and Velda Farms/FedEx/ETC/HPE Automation.

Posted on 4/22/2000 12:57 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals at Disney - Negatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:30 PM MST:



A lot of people have been wondering why Disne does not give FIRST the press it deserves. Well, I know many people who work for disney (the company I work for is one of disneys biggest suppliers), and I know how disney works. Disney is all about making money (evident in their food prices, etc.). Look at all these events hosted at disney that get press, they are inside of the park, so people have to buy a ticket to get into disney to see the event. Now look at our event, we are too big to be inside the park, so we have that wonderful venue set up in the parking lot, so people don't have to buy a ticket to get in, all they need to do is pay for parking. So, disney only mentions it inside the brochures that they give out in the park, so people who have already bought their tickets can go see the competition. I am not 100% positive, but this is quite likely the reason for the lack of press.

Jason

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Posted by Elaine Anselm.

Engineer on team #191, X-Cats, from Jos Wilson High School and Xerox.

Posted on 4/22/2000 6:16 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney Press posted by Jason Rudolph on 4/22/2000 12:57 PM MST:



I think you are right on here. When the FIRST competiton was inside Disney in 95 and 96 there was a great deal moe Disney advertising than there is now. I remember it being listed months ahead on the Disney web site.

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Posted by Lewis Sussman.

Coach on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon NH HS, Hanover NH HS, Hartford VT HS and CRREL/CREARE.

Posted on 4/24/2000 1:44 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney Press posted by Jason Rudolph on 4/22/2000 12:57 PM MST:



Say what you will about the lack of publicity on Disney's part, but I was still in awe of what they DO for us. I'm not that upset that they wouldn't actively promote something that would be in direct competition for people who might be visiting Epcot instead of gawking at us. If we want more publicity, WE should do it ourselves, and the best way to do it is through continued growth and gracious professionalism. The media will come to us. Besides, where would we put more people if they did come?

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Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Student on team #168, The Flashbacks, from North Miami Beach Senior High and Velda Farms/FedEx/ETC/HPE Automation.

Posted on 4/24/2000 3:39 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Disney Press posted by Lewis Sussman on 4/24/2000 1:44 PM MST:



I completely agree. I think that what disney does is absolutely fantastic. I was just trying to explain where they are coming from to all the people who have complained about the lack of press coverage.

Jason

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Posted by Matt Leese.

Student on team #7 from Parkville High School and NASA, Black & Decker, AAI, Raytheon.

Posted on 4/24/2000 2:12 PM MST


In Reply to: Disney Press posted by Jason Rudolph on 4/22/2000 12:57 PM MST:



I think Disney gave us pretty good press this year. Did anybody else realize that the reason that ABC News and Goodmorning America were at the competition was because Disney told them to? Remember Disney owns ABC. AFAIK, that's the best national press we've really had to date (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think we should complain about Disney giving us press.

Matt Leese

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Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 4/18/2000 11:39 PM MST


In Reply to: To Disney or not to Disney... that is the question posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:02 PM MST:



Here are some alternatives that I've heard over the years... I'm sure there are others.

1. Limit the 'openness' of Nationals. Turn Regionals into 'qualification tournaments'.
2. Turn the current 3 day competition into two smaller 3 day competitions (back to back weekends).
3. Move the arena location... to a permanent facility (O-rena?) that is better $$ spent for Disney's, FIRST's and our dollar.
4. Move the event location...Atlanta?... or some other centrally located large city.
5. No Nationals ... (did I say that?!?!) and focus more on Regionals.

...others?

So, have at it people... chew on this for a while and let's see what churns out at the end.

Andy B.

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Posted by Andy Grady.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #42, P.A.R.T.S, from Alvirne High School and Daniel Webster College.

Posted on 4/19/2000 9:30 AM MST


In Reply to: Nationals - Alternatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:39 PM MST:



Just an idea, how about this scenario:
The top 8 teams (or alliances) from each regional will qualify for the national tornement. The rest of the teams will compete in a smaller tornement. (also held at epcot or wherever). The competition expands to 5 days, day 1 will be practice. Days 2 and 3 will be for the smaller tornement, days 4 and 5 will be for the national tornement. At the conclusion of day 5 awards and the team party and stuff will be held for all teams. And why not for the hell of it pit the winner of the smaller tornement vs. the national champions, kinda like the superbowl.

Also for added effect, i loved the idea of the alliance lottery so I say before each regional a lottery is held. The teams stick together for the duration of the competition. Then the top 8 teams move on to the nationals together as a team, to see how they fare against other teams. This could get some very interesting matches in, and maybe even solve some age old questions like who is tougher, the New England teams or the Midwest teams and so on. So now teams could battle for local pride also =)

Just a thought

Andy Grady, DWC/Alvirne HS, Team 42

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Posted by Ryan Shanley.

Student on team #191, The X-Cats, from Joseph C. Wilson Magnet High School and Xerox.

Posted on 4/19/2000 10:42 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: Nationals - Alternatives posted by Andy Grady on 4/19/2000 9:30 AM MST:



Regarding the thought on a lottery, I wouldn't like to spend my senior year building a really good robot, then get stuck with a not-so-good ally for the whole tournament, and not do as well as we could.
And the other possible flaw is that a five day national would be out of many teams' price ranges, especially those that couldn't make it to (or barely made it to) this year's three-day nationals. I know a lot of teams can't go to regionals or can only go to regionals (and not nationals) because the expense is already so great.

...but, just throwing out thoughts. It's definitely a good thing to be brainstorming on this

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Posted by jack.

Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and Nypro.

Posted on 4/19/2000 12:17 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals - Alternatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:39 PM MST:



instead of limiting what teams qualify for the nationals why don't we make it into a season. the reionals would be like regular season games, and as you go to the nationals start the playoffs, this way you could make conferences like midwest, and northeast. that way everybody has a fair chance, and it could also be double or whatever elimination that way if you get beet once it doesn't decide your fate, also for the rookie teams you have the possibility of wild card. so basically i'm saying break it down like any normal sports league make conferences and have teams seed in the regionals and procede to the playoffs. like a normal season

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Posted by Chris Dibble.

Student on team #102, Dexterous Gearheads, from Somerville High School and Ortho Clinical Diagnostics.

Posted on 4/19/2000 7:06 PM MST


In Reply to: Nationals - Alternatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:39 PM MST:



: 1. Limit the 'openness' of Nationals. Turn Regionals into 'qualification tournaments'.

I have thought of that alternative, but I believe it is not in the spirit of FIRST- what i mean is that most of the emphasis in the national is not placed on the winner of the robotics competition, but on the winner of the Chairman's Award, which has nothing really to do with building a robot. FIRST is about teamwork and real-life education, not competition. But, I'm not saying it is not a competitive event.

: 4. Move the event location...Atlanta?... or some other centrally located large city.

That's not a bad idea I must say. But there's something about Epcot that is different than anywhere else.

: 5. No Nationals ... (did I say that?!?!) and focus more on Regionals.

I dont' really think that's a good idea. The nationals is good way to see what people all across the country are doing.


Just my 2 cents.. tell me what you think.

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Posted by Sam Lindhorst.

Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.

Posted on 4/22/2000 2:10 AM MST


In Reply to: Nationals - Alternatives posted by Andy Baker on 4/18/2000 11:39 PM MST:



Right now alternatives for teams:

Book you own rooms on International Drive without going through Disney and save a bunch. Rent 15 passenger vans for team transportation. Bring your own lunch. If you have an afternoon off, go to Kennedy Space center, it's an hour away. You can go to Disney with a single park ticket, or Universal or Sea World for less. Eat dinner on International Drive or 192 and get better food, more food, cheaper food, or maybe all three. You have more options (hot? Wet n' Wild!), access to those places you might need anyway (Home Depot, Disney have a bus going there?), and freedom to stay as late, come as early as needed.

I went early this year and spent a little time looking around Kissimmee and Orlando before the competition. so I was oriented. We stayed off-park, and I not only don't regret it, but you will have a hard time convincing me to ever stay in Disney again. International Drive is great, I never had a meal that wasn't very good in a week there, despite trying everything from Buddy's Bar-B-Que to Landry''s to a family owned Chinese buffet. And when we needed something, anything could be bought in a 10 minute radius.

I thought last year that the teams that stayed off-park did better at team presence in the pits. We were certainly better this year, than when we were on-park last year. Although this year our team booked through Disney, I am recommending we book-it-ourselves next year. I bet we save half.

Sam

: Here are some alternatives that I've heard over the years... I'm sure there are others.

: 1. Limit the 'openness' of Nationals. Turn Regionals into 'qualification tournaments'.
: 2. Turn the current 3 day competition into two smaller 3 day competitions (back to back weekends).
: 3. Move the arena location... to a permanent facility (O-rena?) that is better $$ spent for Disney's, FIRST's and our dollar.
: 4. Move the event location...Atlanta?... or some other centrally located large city.
: 5. No Nationals ... (did I say that?!?!) and focus more on Regionals.

: ...others?

: So, have at it people... chew on this for a while and let's see what churns out at the end.

: Andy B.