1519 - One Dual-Config Robot or Two Robots?

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

"If it looks like two robots, it is two robots" is an arbitrary position with no defining line between what looks like two robots and what doesn't.

Just to clarify, the quote about "If it looks like two robots, it is two robots" isn't a phrase that was told to us, but rather an example of a different starting perspective that would clearly rule our design as being two robots, rather than one robot.

As best as I can recall, the ruling of two robots was based upon R09. ("Each ... team can enter ONE (1) ROBOT ...") Prior to our even arriving at our regional, the GDC had been made aware of our "two robots" and had sent email to the regional's tech inspector that our design did not comply with the intent of that rule. However, as the GDC had never seen our design firsthand or been presented any information from us directly, I was concerned that their decision was based upon a different understanding of our design than what we had actually built, despite the best intentions of all involved parties.

The other rule that I recall being mentioned to illustrate that our design violated the intent of R09 was R12 (the weight rule) which says, "When determining weight, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional mechanisms that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT shall be weighed together." Since our two configurations did not share a single "basic ROBOT structure" (other than the electronics board) it was considered as two robots.

However, as you mention, our robot being disallowed as two robots makes it unclear as to what fraction of the robot can be considered a seperate "configuration." Hopefully the pending response to our Q&A question will clarify this.

Originally Posted by dtengineering

It is a shame that a representative from GDC did not immediately answer your well stated request for clarification.

We, too, would have liked a very quick response, but in all fairness, we really can't expect an immediate response on a day when the entire GDC is surely involved with other tournaments.

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Congratulations on having perhaps the lightest robot to rank in the top eight in the recent history of FRC!

Thanks for the kudos on making a light weight -- we ran Fezzik all day on Friday at only 87.7 pounds in hopes of being able to add the Speed Racer configuration as on option on Saturday. However, since we had not yet heard a response to our question, on Saturday morning we added 30 pounds of dumbbells to Fezzik's base in order to increase his stability. (He had tipped over twice in Friday's qualification rounds in a way that we had not anticipated -- when carrying a trackball and then bumping up sideways against a trackball which was wedged against the side wall, the two trackballs would smoosh together, storing up energy which would then rebound and flip Fezzik over onto his side. Amazingly, this happened not just once, but twice in qualifying rounds while driving around the field with a trackball while the arm (and the trackball) where in the "stowed" position!)

Originally Posted by dtengineering

P.S. I note the CAD drawing of Fezzik in the request for clarification shows 4 CIMs attached to the gearboxes? Just an oversight, I presume?

The 4 CIMs were in our initial design of Fezzik; they ended up being reduced to 2 CIMs in order to allow Speed Racer to use the other 2 CIMs and to save weight. We never went back and updated the CAD. (The reduction to 2 CIMs was one of the design compromises we made in order to implement the dual-configuration robot.) After receiving no answer to our Q&A, we would have liked to up Fezzik's drivetrain to 4 CIMs for the elimination rounds on Saturday, but we weren't sure of the effect that change would have upon our autonomous programs as well as potentially significantly changing the handling of the robot immediately before the elimination rounds. We stayed the course with the 2 CIMs for the elimination rounds and ended up having odd "stuttering" problems with our drivetrain that we still haven't been able to explain.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Ken Streeter

As best as I can recall, the ruling of two robots was based upon R09. ("Each ... team can enter ONE (1) ROBOT ...") Prior to our even arriving at our regional, the GDC had been made aware of our "two robots" and had sent email to the regional's tech inspector that our design did not comply with the intent of that rule. However, as the GDC had never seen our design firsthand or been presented any information from us directly, I was concerned that their decision was based upon a different understanding of our design than what we had actually built, despite the best intentions of all involved parties.

I have to ask how they became aware and whether you were told before the event. Or do you know how they became aware of your intentions?

Q&A is silent in the matter, as far as I can tell.

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by EricH

I have to ask how they became aware and whether you were told before the event. Or do you know how they became aware of your intentions?

Our dual-configuration design was "unveiled" at an event held annually by one of our primary sponsors, BAE Systems, on the Friday prior to ship date. This year, there were over a dozen teams in attendance unveiling their robots. Also in attendance were many of the volunteers who run and staff the BAE Systems Granite State Regional, including the head technical inspector. Our design raised many eyebrows that evening and elicited questions from other teams as to whether our design was legal.

After ship date (and still a few days prior to the start of our regional) I spoke with the head technical inspector for GSR, describing our design and why I thought it was in compliance with the rules. I should note that I personally have the utmost respect and confidence in the GSR head technical inspector; he is an excellent engineer as well as a co-worker and friend of mine. Since our design was way off the beaten path, he inquired of FIRST as to the legality of our approach. He told us of FIRST's answer as soon as possible; we learned of it in the "crate opening" period on Thursday of GSR. The response from FIRST said that if we disagreed with the decision, we would need to submit an official Q&A request on the matter. We did that as quickly as we could, which wasn't until shortly after lunch on Thursday. I presume that an official answer in the Q&A will be forthcoming some time this week.