Competition Professionalism

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

Kids with no function, that I have seen, generally are out dancing, not paying attention to the competition, hanging out in the arena etc. That does not in any way mean that the kids who dance don't have a function. I am just saying that SOME don't. It is THOSE kids that I am concerned for.

I'm confused. Are you concerned for the dancing kids on other teams? I don't understand how you can know what their "function" on the team is. If you're concerned for the dancing kids on your own team, it seems that you're the one who can best work through that concern. Trying to limit the dance options for kids on other teams doesn't appear to me as an appropriate direction to take.

I can best come to grips with your posts by assuming that you think all teams are made up of the same mix of students as yours, and that you have students on your team that you believe to be nonproductive members. But I'd rather not make that assumption, so I really am still unsure what your main point is.

[henryBsick]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I'm confused. Are you concerned for the dancing kids on other teams? I don't understand how you can know what their "function" on the team is. If you're concerned for the dancing kids on your own team, it seems that you're the one who can best work through that concern. Trying to limit the dance options for kids on other teams doesn't appear to me as an appropriate direction to take.

I can best come to grips with your posts by assuming that you think all teams are made up of the same mix of students as yours, and that you have students on your team that you believe to be nonproductive members. But I'd rather not make that assumption, so I really am still unsure what your main point is.

I do have a lot of thoughts floating around in this thread, it is pretty confusing.
My assumption on the structure of a team is from seeing a few different teams and their similarities in composition.
My concern ultimately lies with these two things:
1)Mass dancing interferes with game play. Time is scheduled into the rules for anything robot related; let it be such.
2)I am afraid there is a growing population of students that have no role on teams. Whether that is the same percentage-per-team multiplied by more teams at regionals now, or just a shear increase in the team size, I believe it is happening.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I do have a lot of thoughts floating around in this thread, it is pretty confusing.
My assumption on the structure of a team is from seeing a few different teams and their similarities in composition.
My concern ultimately lies with these two things:
1)Mass dancing interferes with game play. Time is scheduled into the rules for anything robot related; let it be such.
2)I am afraid there is a growing population of students that have no role on teams. Whether that is the same percentage-per-team multiplied by more teams at regionals now, or just a shear increase in the team size, I believe it is happening.

OK, well, now we have two concerns. I'm not sure the second one is valid, so I'll ignore it in this response.

Now, as to the first concern: If you'll notice, it usually only happens when there is already down time, such as robot cool-down or in a timeout situation. So I'm not sure what the concern is there. If it goes long, then I can see grounds for concern (e.g. if it goes long during the Championship when time is already critical.) But it usually doesn't.

What would you rather have: High schoolers with nothing to do for 6 minutes or those same high schoolers with an activity that might cause the regional to run a little long?

Remember, most of the teams not in the finals have already packed up their robots or are working on it with a designated crew. So there are a lot of people with nothing better to do than dance or cause trouble or what-have-you. Based on your posts, you would rather see them have nothing to do, which could cause problems, which would certainly drive potential sponsors away. I would rather keep them occupied with dancing until the field was ready for matches again.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

...I am afraid however that FIRST is or soon may be on a slippery down hill slope to massive recruitment efforts with no technical experience provided. FIRST will move away from the robot and competition aspect and become a hang out club for many high schoolers...I just see the on field mass group dancing as a side effect to a potential falling off of technically oriented students. Yes there are many facets to a team that are not technically oriented, it is a necessity. I am worried about the students who "fall through the cracks" if you will and are not involved in any way.

I understand what you're saying... but I think you're a little bit too worried. As I've watched my team grow, it's gone from a group of students who are only interested in building a robot, to a much larger group of students who have interests like CAD, business, spirit, fundraising, community outreach, and much more. Sure, we have times where there are kids in the room not building a robot. We have more students who sometimes come to robotics to hang out with friends. But we celebrate our larger, more diverse team. Even if these kids aren't building a robot, they are growing from their experiences on a FIRST team. They learn how to work together, and they learn from professionals in whatever field they help out with, regardless of whether it involves touching the robot or not. These are extremely valuable life skills. At the competitions and events, they get to witness the robots, and often become inspired that way. A freshman girl who was once afraid to get her hand dirty might be the captain of the pit crew before she graduates. The dancing and excitement at the competitions only helps to draw in more people to be a part of the miracle of FIRST.

[Adam McLeod]

You're definitely overestimating how fun doing the chicken dance a couple times is. I'm not worried that people are joining our team just because they heard they might get to dance. I imagine those people are going to dances.

[DeAnnaC]

When our visitors came to the arena on Friday, they said they could FEEL the energy in the place. Maybe they could just feel the bass in the speakers? I love the colored, spiked hair, the painted jeans with the team name and the colorful-ness of the whole thing. I love it that kids can be as creative as they want.

We had a team for 2 years at the STL Regional who were the Kinigits.. (not the Knights). They wore green tunics and one of the guys (with a chainmail shirt) and a female (in a princess outfit complete with cone hat) completed the scene. The whole team clapped coconuts together and they skipped when they moved from place to place. I smiled everytime I saw them.

Anyway - my favorite video clip from this whole weekend is watching the guys (mostly male) sitting on the floor waiting for alliance selections. I think we were 15 minutes ahead of schedule at that time and they start to play the Macarena. Our team captain said that they all just looked at each other wondering why they'd play that song while the captains were supposed to stay on the floor, and they all started doing the dance while sitting. When they all jump to side (right or left?) it is hilarious. I hope we can post it to youtube soon.

6 weeks of seriousness is tough. Most of the time the volunteers/refs and judges get into the dancing during breaks as well. If these people are having a good time and keep coming back as volunteers, it's got to be a positive thing.

[Uberbots]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I do have a lot of thoughts floating around in this thread, it is pretty confusing.
My assumption on the structure of a team is from seeing a few different teams and their similarities in composition.
My concern ultimately lies with these two things:
1)Mass dancing interferes with game play. Time is scheduled into the rules for anything robot related; let it be such.
2)I am afraid there is a growing population of students that have no role on teams. Whether that is the same percentage-per-team multiplied by more teams at regionals now, or just a shear increase in the team size, I believe it is happening.

yeah and what we (i think, don't hit me) are saying is that the correlation between the number of people dancing and the number of "no role" students does not exist. What i have noticed is that the kids who genuinely have no role aren't the ones who are dancing, they are the ones who don't even show up to the competition, or sit in the stands with their heads in their hands showing no spirit at all. I think the ones who have no role, and who are uninspired by this program are the ones who are bored at the competitions.

dancing is a part of the competition. if it "interferes" with gameplay, so be it. they wouldnt have the music in the first place if they didnt want that to happen.

[JaneYoung]

ok, here's a story...true story.

My first trip to Atlanta was very exciting. Overwhelming with all the energy, excitement, the fields, the teams, the pits (omg), everything. Wonderful. We were a lot smaller team than we are now and with the pit crew and drive team busy, the team in the stands was very small. And quiet. When the team wasn't competing, the students pulled out books and read. When the team was up, they put down their books and watched. The drive team would signal them to cheer and make noise and it just didn't happen. When the match was over they went back to their books. But - they never missed a match. Not one. They were there, they just didn't want to cheer. Things have changed over the past few years and the team has gotten into cheering and dancing and conga lines but in their own way, I think the quiet ones who read books had just as much fun and were just as involved in the team.

This post doesn't really address anything other than we can't really judge a book by its cover.

[DeAnnaC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP3uwQVN15s

This is a short video of dancing at the St. Louis Regional. I left the audio as is - so you can hear them announcing the match scores at the end of the match, while the teams are dancing.

We were a few minutes ahead on Saturday (how did that happen?) and they had all the mascots down on the field to kill some time..

DeAnna

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by DeAnnaC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP3uwQVN15s

This is a short video of dancing at the St. Louis Regional. I left the audio as is - so you can hear them announcing the match scores at the end of the match, while the teams are dancing.

We were a few minutes ahead on Saturday (how did that happen?) and they had all the mascots down on the field to kill some time..

DeAnna

Thanks for editing this video, DeAnna. Lots of fun to watch.

The audio is good, too. I noticed that dancing frequently took place during field reset, while scores (and sometimes penalty explanations) were being announced.

The Saturday dancing with Fredbird was actually a scheduled activity. Mascots were invited to a special meeting that morning and asked to be ready at 3pm, when Fredbird arrived. Field volunteers, and especially our queueing volunteers, worked hard to keep us on schedule for the mascot dance.

[Bob Steele]

I have had the opportunity to attend many corporate/professional meetings.
I can say unequivocally that very, very few of them would not have been better if everyone had gotten up and did a chicken dance.

Tension does funny things to people.
High School kids seem to be oblivious to it at times... and dedicated to it in others....

Culturally speaking, dancing is an expression of emotion...

in FIRST culture.... the participants dance to show their joy in participating.

[Jessica Stidham]

Personally, I think that the dancing is great. It gives people a chance to loosen up when they are stressed. I know for my team it gives all the scouts a break and is fun for all the people with us in the stands.

[Mike Harrison]

Originally Posted by Henry_222

I am lividly afraid that there are kids out there who go to the events and have nothing, and had nothing, to do with the robot. It is only a social event. Where is the inspiration and recognition in that?

I'm sorry, i really respect the work that everyone else does that doesn't work on the robot. What do you have to say for everyone on Public Relations or marketing or animation or anything else that has nothing to do with the robot and a lot to do with FIRST?

[billbo911]

IMHO, (Remember, this is an opinion)
Dancing, Mascots, Banners, Flags, Costumes, Loud Music etc., etc., etc.

This is not a "professional" meeting, this is an EVENT. Think of it that way, and you will understand, WE ARE HAVING FUN, and we treat each other with Gracious Professionalism. I believe any Corp. Sponsor will easily understand and agree. (Heck, you might even catch them shuffling to the beat, in a suit )

[synth3tk]

Just remember, the OP was against it because of 1) time limits, and 2) people "falling through the cracks"