Directing the cameramen

[Ryan Dognaux]

So... there's a lot of bickering about the camera work at FIRST events. There is no way that a static wide field shot would be a good idea. The camera output is mainly for the large video screen at the events, it's just a plus or an added bonus that the feed can be webcasted on the interwebs.

If anything those guys and girls need a pat on the back, that work is a lot harder than it looks. The shoulder mounted cameras are heavy and lugging one of those suckers around for 8 hours a day for 2 days takes a toll on you. I would know, I got tired and sore after operating one for an hour and a half. Granted, most of these crews are professionals - but how often do they film a robotics competition?

I somewhat agree with Dan here though. If the camera work at your event is just bloody awful, talk to the guy operating the mixing board who is choosing the shots. From my experience, all of those people are very nice and are happy to accommodate reasonable requests. Reasonable, keep in mind, not 'can we have a static open field-wide shot for 30 minutes' requests.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

I suggest that anyone that notices amateur videography like this to GRACIOUSLY explain to the video crew what their job is supposed to be and where they are failing at their jobs at adding informative alternate viewpoints to the competition.

Complaining about the videography is applying pressure to the wrong point. The camera crew is doing the job. The problem is that the job is to provide closeups for the big screen at the venue. Broadcasting the game to remote viewers is not a priority. Recording the match for later review is not a priority.

I think what you want to do is get the regional organizers to change the priorities, not to accuse the camera operators of being unprofessional.

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Complaining about the videography is applying pressure to the wrong point. The camera crew is doing the job. The problem is that the job is to provide closeups for the big screen at the venue. Broadcasting the game to remote viewers is not a priority. Recording the match for later review is not a priority.

I think what you want to do is get the regional organizers to change the priorities, not to accuse the camera operators of being unprofessional.

Alan - my complaint is about the videography at the competition for the benefit of the people in the stands, probably even more so than for webstreams. Like I said, it doesn't do the crowd (especially scouters) any good if the handheld cameraman is focused on only one robot up close. This should NOT be the responsibility of the camera crew - if they are, they are doing the wrong job, and if they were professional sports videographers (instead of professional general intent videographers) then they would know this. Their responsibility should be to add informative points of view of the field that you don't get in the stands. But you are correct - we need to get the regional organizers to better explain the video crew's responsibility to them.

Now practically speaking, I don't believe there should be a handheld camera near the field at all. They are too much of a danger to themselves and the volunteers around them, and they are a liability to FIRST. In the corners of the field with a tripod, where people aren't running around, should suffice for most camera angles. If you need a closer view, that's why man invented the "zoom" button.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

Alan - my complaint is about the videography at the competition for the benefit of the people in the stands, probably even more so than for webstreams. Like I said, it doesn't do the crowd (especially scouters) any good if the handheld cameraman is focused on only one robot up close. This should NOT be the responsibility of the camera crew - if they are, they are doing the wrong job, and if they were professional sports videographers (instead of professional general intent videographers) then they would know this. Their responsibility should be to add informative points of view of the field that you don't get in the stands. But you are correct - we need to get the regional organizers to better explain the video crew's responsibility to them.

Now practically speaking, I don't believe there should be a handheld camera near the field at all. They are too much of a danger to themselves and the volunteers around them, and they are a liability to FIRST. In the corners of the field with a tripod, where people aren't running around, should suffice for most camera angles. If you need a closer view, that's why man invented the "zoom" button.

I don't think I understand your point. I think a close up of a robot on the big screen is extremely helpful to the people in the stands. Unless they have amazing super-human eyes, they probably will not be able to see the close up of the robots. Thus, the close up pictures of one robot does give the people in the stands "a view of the field that you don't get in the stands".

As someone who watches the webcasts online and has done prescouting in the past, I would love them to just show the entire field, and not focus on one robot while the other 5 are scoring. But I understand that those videos are not intended or taken for me, but for the people in the stands that already have the entire field right in front of them.

(On a side note, I know for digital photography, the 'zoom' function can drastically change the image by changing the depth of field. I would think it is the same with video cameras).

[David55]

Originally Posted by Leav

I suggest that people in charge of recording videos for the web and TBA try and get the wide angle feed 100% of the time.
I would even go as far as to say that it is more important to have the wide angle feed than have the score keeper at the bottom of the screen.


Just my 0.02NIS....

-Leav

While I don’t necessarily agree with your suggestion (watching from 1 static POV can become quite boring), I just wanted to point out that there are technical obstacles that will prevent most people (if not all) from getting the wide angle camera feed. The cameras are connected directly to the video mixer, and no production company will let you tap into that feed (assuming you had the right connectors and converters, which you probably don’t). I know from previous experience that the only analog connection I could get was directly from the video mixer.
I also don’t agree with what you said regarding the live scoring. I think it’s an extremely important aspect of any webcast and archived video, and most viewers will get annoyed by the lack of real-time scoring.

I think the better approach would be to politely ask the video producer (who mixes the video and communicates with the cameramen) to try and focus more on the whole field and specific robots that are doing something interesting, rather than random close-ups. They have a different perspective on things and probably don't know what most viewers at home are interested in.

David

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by David55

I think the better approach would be to politely ask the video producer (who mixes the video and communicates with the cameramen) to try and focus more on the whole field and specific robots that are doing something interesting, rather than random close-ups. They have a different perspective on things and probably don't know what most viewers at home are interested in.

David

I think in general the cameramen and video mixer do a decent job for the primary purpose of the video.

My one pet peeve is that a tipped robot spinning it's wheels or even worse, the LED flasher or other lights on a tipped robot do not count as "interesting" things!!!!

[Corey Oostveen]

I just really wish they had one wide static shot that they used strictly for the webcasts. It is great to see close ups at competition on the big screen (I love it!!) but when I wanna see a match video after competition I wanna see everything, I don't really want close ups it causes the viewer to miss so much. I would rather be able to follow every robot rather then maybe 1 if I was lucky.

But this problem was solved by taping it ourselves. Problem with that is...no score updates on the bottom of the screen.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by David55

I think the better approach would be to politely ask the video producer (who mixes the video and communicates with the cameramen) to try and focus more on the whole field and specific robots that are doing something interesting, rather than random close-ups. They have a different perspective on things and probably don't know what most viewers at home are interested in.

David

Of course, there is a paradox: When you in a position to ask the video producer kindly to show more wide-field action, you are not in a position to actually need it, since you're at the competition

[Racer26]

It would be cool to see a team set up for next year a webcast similar to what NASCAR has, in that you could stream any/all of the feeds into a nice interface, where the viewer can pick which one to pay attention to. However, I think that there are only 2 maybe 3 cameras at most of the events, so its probably overkill.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

It would be cool to see a team set up for next year a webcast similar to what NASCAR has, in that you could stream any/all of the feeds into a nice interface, where the viewer can pick which one to pay attention to. However, I think that there are only 2 maybe 3 cameras at most of the events, so its probably overkill.

lol, I was looking into that with Flash, it's really complicated after a while. Would it be overkill? Sure! But it'd be cool just to have it. It would mean that the providers of each webcast would need access to the mixer. And to make it interesting enough, we could see if solid-state cameras could be sent out in KOPs so we could have an "in-car" view.

[technoL]

As I went back and watched some matches this week, I realized that there were a lot of great moments missed due to the camera being focused on joystick-action rather than on-field action. While I really want to see just a static wide-angle view, it would be great if the cameras were only focused on robots on the field, not zooming in for extended periods of time on dead robots or just only one robot. But I'm grateful to just be able to see the videos at all

[MegaSparks]

It is real interesting to read the comments about the camera crew as I ran a camera in one of my past lives. Most often the camera crews have little knowledge of what is important, especially when it comes to something out of the ordinary like FIRST robotics. They try to record what would normally be exciting images, like car wrecks (robots tipped over) or operator or driver images. Camera operators are taught to record People when ever possible. If we could in a very nice way inform the camera people that the field is more important than the joysticks this might lead to better images on the big screens for all of us to enjoy. Gracious Professionalism even with the camera people.

[FRANK(WGH)]

A few people have nailed this one on the head. The video provided at regionals is created for the spectators at the event. I do think that a production could be put together to satisfy both those at the competition and those watching at home. The fix to this is a larger production company unfortunately. You'd need at least 3 cameras, and the addition of a director. Currently most regionals have 2 cameras and a director/technical director (switcher) as one person. It's difficult to switch and look at make a decision on what to switch to at the same time. It can be done, but when a person only sees FIRST events once a year, it's difficult.

:WISH:
I'd like to see the regionals become more produced to be like a TV show. The announcers in Pittsburgh did interviews after some matches.
:WISH: