A Courtesy

[Gboehm]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I too am somewhat saddened by the tone of some of the responses. All I was wondering is why Gboehm was so upset by people taking pictures of robots that he'd call it his "pet peeve". I'm trying not to read anything into it, or to assume anything about his feelings. I don't understand the reason behind the comment, and I want to. He didn't say anything about wanting people to ask before looking at robots. I just want to know why using a camera would make a difference to him. It's a simple request for information.

I once saw a person fall off a stage because of a flash from a photo. And Being and theatre has made me a little touchy on the subject. I dont want anyone to get hurt, including scouts. Also getting up close and getting a better photo... Maybe I'm just afraid you will see our bad side.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by Gboehm

OK I by no means have any problem with photos. It is a pet peeve of mine, mainly because people take photos without even talking a lot of times. Thats what the pet peeve is. I'm well aware that everyone has has agreed to let things be photographed. Its just to me I always ask before a photograph gets taken. We have posted photos of our robot, I know that. Just be polite and say hi, ask if ya can take a picture and we will let ya into the pit and let ya take as many as you like. By no means am I trying to be secretive. I wanna meet ya and talk to ya. Thats what FIRST is all about.

So what I'm saying is, feel free to get a photo and ask questions. Don't just snap a photo and run!

Also as a note, most scouts are social and that is GREAT!

And what FIRST is about!

But that's what a few people were justifying. Either they don't want to bother you (which you said is fine with you/your team), or they may have filled out info already but forgot to take a photo or you weren't there. I understand what you're saying, just that the wording makes it appear otherwise.

You want people to take photos, but you want to talk to them a little bit.

[Gboehm]

Originally Posted by blakcheez

But that's what a few people were justifying. Either they don't want to bother you (which you said is fine with you/your team), or they may have filled out info already but forgot to take a photo or you weren't there. I understand what you're saying, just that the wording makes it appear otherwise.

You want people to take photos, but you want to talk to them a little bit.

I never will be an enlish Major, I should have been more clear.

[Protronie]

The only real problem I can see when people are taking a picture is if they are getting in the way of the work going on, if the flash they are using is causing a problem, or if the person working on the robot is shy...

or... if they up to something sneaky.

Of course if todays society your photographed or videotaped a hundred times a day without anyone asking or in most cases you not even knowing.
I understand in the UK it even worst.

Big Brother is watching!

[vivek16]

I guess I was the "scout" last year as member on a rookie team. I always felt rather rude to just walk up to a teams pit and start snapping pictures. If you ask, most teams will greet you warmly (if they are not busy frantically building!) and even let you in their pits and to a better position to photograph.

Just be polite and remember to have a good time!

-Vivek

p.s. when I read the starter's post, it seemed not very rude at all... I don't see what there is to be offended about.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Gboehm

I once saw a person fall off a stage because of a flash from a photo. And Being and theatre has made me a little touchy on the subject.

Okay, that makes sense. It sounds like you're concerned with an unexpected flash getting in people's eyes. I agree -- if your camera is going to shine a sudden bright light in someone's direction, it certainly would be courteous to ask permission first. I understand clearly how a camera flash with no warning could be an issue.

On the other hand, I don't recall seeing any camera flashes in the pits at the St. Louis regional. A decent digital camera takes perfectly adequate pictures using ambient light without a flash. Reflections from metal robot parts can seriously disrupt a photograph anyway, so I'd prefer not to use a flash in any case.

[Tt321b]

I agree, you should definitely ask before taking a picture of the robot. Last year at the Long Island Regional a team went around and took pictures of all the robots and posted them on a board at the regional for scouting purposes. But the thing is that at the time they took the picture our robot was in pieces so the picture only showed a frame, drive train, electronics and wheels. If they asked us first I am sure that we could have explained that this was not the best time and they could come back later to get a good picture of the robot.

[Viper37]

Originally Posted by Tt321b

I agree, you should definitely ask before taking a picture of the robot. Last year at the Long Island Regional a team went around and took pictures of all the robots and posted them on a board at the regional for scouting purposes. But the thing is that at the time they took the picture our robot was in pieces so the picture only showed a frame, drive train, electronics and wheels. If they asked us first I am sure that we could have explained that this was not the best time and they could come back later to get a good picture of the robot.

I still don't see a problem..

[eugenebrooks]

At my next regional, I am going to ask each and every
robot if it minds if I take its picture. I'll take the lack
of any response as tacit approval.

Eugene

[Molten]

Why has this become such an issue that it goes on for three pages? Is it really too much to ask for someone to request a picture? It takes two seconds. You probably say thousands of words that day. Is it really too hard to say a few more? Remember, you don't have to understand a request to oblige to it. If someone asks you to hold the door for them, do you ask why? No, you hold the door for them without asking. Why should this be any different? Just knowing that there are people who request that you ask, should be enough reason to ask. You shouldn't have to know why, or have to agree with them. Just remember to ask.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Molten

Why has this become such an issue that it goes on for three pages? Is it really too much to ask for someone to request a picture? It takes two seconds.

It might add only two seconds of the photographer's time, but it takes a lot more than two seconds from the person being asked permission from. I would rapidly become very irritated if everyone who just wanted a snapshot of our team's robot had to interrupt me and get my attention first. Maybe I'm just unusally sensitive to what I consider pointless disruptions, but I think it seems much more polite to take the photo without undue fuss than to turn the process into a ritual.

Just knowing that there are people who request that you ask, should be enough reason to ask. You shouldn't have to know why, or have to agree with them. Just remember to ask.

The problem with that simple advice is that there are people who would prefer that you not bother them just to ask for permission to take a picture. I myself don't understand why anyone would think they need permission to take a picture of a robot at a competition in the first place.

However, it's now apparent that the original poster's request wasn't strictly about taking photos without asking first. It was about taking flash photos without asking first. That's a good point, and something I agree with completely.

[Molten]

Just a sidenote that Alan reminded me of: Please do not going from team to team asking if they have buttons. It is something that we get a lot and our team can't afford to spend money on frivolous things such as buttons. We would love to be able to, but we can't. One time I recall, we were in need of a major fix and we had (what seemed like) 50 people come through within an hour just asking for buttons.

An idea to all, how about posting your preference if your preference is strong. If you really do or don't want them to ask, post it under your team number. I doubt anyone will see it as rude. Also, I know that a lot of the teams out there have at least 1 person to spare for answering questions. Why not have the safety person do that? That is who I would tend to ask. They are required to be there, and yet are not usually the most involved in the actual work. That makes them a perfect candidate for questions.

[Viper37]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

It might add only two seconds of the photographer's time, but it takes a lot more than two seconds from the person being asked permission from. I would rapidly become very irritated if everyone who just wanted a snapshot of our team's robot had to interrupt me and get my attention first. Maybe I'm just unusally sensitive to what I consider pointless disruptions, but I think it seems much more polite to take the photo without undue fuss than to turn the process into a ritual.

Your not unusually sensitive, you are spot on.

My shutter has chattered away the entire SD regional, and nobody has said a word.

[A. Snodgrass]

Originally Posted by Molten

An idea to all, how about posting your preference if your preference is strong. If you really do or don't want them to ask, post it under your team number.

A suggestion I would make as an alternative to posting the preference here would be to post something visible in your pit area if you have a very strong preference on photography of your robot, or of team members. Not everybody reads Chief Delphi, and if it is a concern to your team, that might be a good way of dealing with it. The other thing I would mention would be if you are really concerned about this issue or have strong feelings one way or another it might be worth coming to a consensus, at least with the mentors.

Now, onto what I have seen mentioned only briefly, with this statement.

Originally Posted by EricH

One other note: the photographer might not be from a team (e.g., media, in which case you will be asked permission) OR not be a scout as such.

While much of the photography that goes on in the pit area is likely due to teams scouting or taking photos, occasionally there are outside people that come in to take pictures. They could be anybody from some of the VIP's who want to take some photos home so they remember the competition to news crews to somebody hired by FIRST or volunteering with FIRST to take promotional and/or event related pictures. For all you might say something on CD about not wanting pictures taken without somebody asking one way or another, these people might not know that they should be concerned or that your team has a preference. Many times they will likely ask, but sometimes they might not. Just some food for thought.

Flash photography, just like noise makers or other, similar devices, I would think presents a potential safety hazard. This is because even if you warn the team you are taking a picture of, there is the potential with a flash that the teams around them could be distracted. A possible solution might be to present the idea of having no flash photography in the pit area due to safety concerns to FIRST.

[eugenebrooks]

Lets see now:

We are going to have signs in pits that say please don't take pictures of our robot without permission.
We are going to have signs in pits that say please don't ask for buttons.
We are going to have signs in pits saying don't bother us for help, we are far to focused on "our" robot to answer questions or render assistance to another team.

I think that as we project these views we are
forgetting the true purpose of the FRC activity.