Intentionally blocking traffic in Hybrid

[eugenebrooks]

So, you start on the right on the angled part of the wall,
so you are out of the way, and you spend a few minutes
coding an autonomous that pulls sort of straight forward
for a few seconds, stopping on the other end of the track
before you hit the opposing alliances wall.

It is not so hard that you would not want to take the risk
to get the four points. The issue at hand is relatively clear
and unambiguous obstruction from teams that are placing
their robots quite accurately.

Even with this ruling, there is opportunity for obstruction.
It would appear that you can pull just past your finish line
and stop, possibly preventing a robot from the opposing
alliance from coming through and bumping a ball. Teams
will just move where they obstruct, working a little harder
at it to do so. Where the rules allow defensive tactics,
defensive tactics will be employed.

Eugene

Originally Posted by petek

This update could spell real trouble for No Robot Left Behind - Hybrid. Say I'm a rookie or other under-mentored team and am having trouble getting my robot to move straight ahead in Hybrid but wanted to try to at least get to the 4 points for crossing our finish line.

Before this update I'd keep plugging away at it and if the robot only moved out to the end of the divider in one match, I'd say "well, we're half-way there" and keep plugging away at it. After this update, however, if we unintentionally blocked the opponent with this move we'd draw a yellow card. Do you think our robot will move in any more Hybrid periods? Not likely.

[Herodotus]

This makes me a sad person. I understand not damaging a robot, intentionally doing so is always out of the question, but one of the most fun things to see is two robots duking it out to try to accomplish the same task. Doing something isn't impressive, doing something with someone else trying to stop you is. What would have been more impressive last year? Robots just filling a rack up with tubes, or a robot pushing another robot out of the way, and then turning around and scoring where the first robot was planning to? What was more exciting in 2006? Seeing a robot drive out there and just pour balls into the target, or drive out there and pour balls into the target while being pushed by another robot?

If the GDC wants to encourage others to watch, removal of defense is not the way to go. Who cares about the score? The score is just numbers on a board, the exciting part is watching the robots interact and seeing robots( and more importantly, people) do the impossible.

[Jimmy Cao]

Well, I guess this issue has been mostly settled....

I dont know what to think of the final answer though. IMO, it's good and bad. Good in the sense that it gives teams that can do a successful autonomous much more ability to score, and bad in the sense that it gives the elite a bigger advantage than before.

I guess it's effects will be felt in week 2 regionals, and after then, we'll be able to properly evaluate how well this new standard works....

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

If the GDC wants to encourage others to watch, removal of defense is not the way to go. Who cares about the score? The score is just numbers on a board, the exciting part is watching the robots interact and seeing robots( and more importantly, people) do the impossible.

I complete agree. Think about this if you will; how interesting would football, soccer,or NASCAR be with out defense? Many like to see others achieve high scores. But most like to see those battle for their points and even fail time to time. If you knew Jeff Gorden was going to run the fastest laps, NASCAR would be pretty boring. The reason people watch it is to see Jeff in the wall or just barely avoid it. NASCAR fans like the bumping, scrapping, and blocking .

Which sounds better?:
"team 1114 just scored their 6th hurdle of the match."
or
"team 1114 just gained the lead with another hurdle despite being bombarded with heavy defense by those two red robots!"

My 2 cents boil down to:Defense is fun to watch! and it seems that the GDC is trying to take it away.

[jason_zielke]

For those of you concerned about your hybrid mode and not having the mentors or resources to make it work correctly, please stop by our pit. One of our students would be happy to come to your pit and work with you to find and code a solution to create an effective autonomous mode. We are happy to teach anyone willing to learn.

For those you you that are concerned about it being "easy" on those that have a good hybrid mode, I think you are missing something. If blocking was allowed in the corner, it would be much easier to figure out where the robots were going to be and avoid them (drive long around the corner). However, now the robots will be scattered all over the field, which makes it much more complicated to avoid the obstructions in the field. This will require a different approach to overcome consistently. This update may have just made it more difficult to get around the field.

[Cascade]

Please see rule update 15. If there are any questions after this update, we all need to go do something else.

Enjoy

[johnr]

just cuase i like to argue,why didn't 619 get a yellow card first match of the day at richmond? what if he was in second lane? what if a robot ran into him? and remember this is just for argument sake.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

NASCAR fans like the bumping, scrapping, and blocking .

You can still bump and scrape. Also blocking is completely different from nascar to FRC. Nascar you try to stay in front of a car. You wouldnt just set your car out in the middle of the track for someone to hit you. That would be a huge waste of money. Also, it never said you cant touch other robots, it just says you cant drive out and sit. I agree with this. I dont like seeing the teams that put large efforts into their auto mode get defeated by those who just drive forward. I like this update and think it was the right move.
Joey

[hillale]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

You can still bump and scrape. Also blocking is completely different from nascar to FRC. Nascar you try to stay in front of a car. You wouldnt just set your car out in the middle of the track for someone to hit you. That would be a huge waste of money. Also, it never said you cant touch other robots, it just says you cant drive out and sit. I agree with this. I dont like seeing the teams that put large efforts into their auto mode get defeated by those who just drive forward. I like this update and think it was the right move.
Joey

The outcome of the game this year shouldn't always be determined by autonomous mode though. Don't get me wrong, those teams who figure it out should definitely get a few points head start when teleoperated mode starts, but often-times, with powerhouse autonomous teams, the match is decided before players get a chance to touch their controls.

Alec

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by hillale

The outcome of the game this year shouldn't always be determined by autonomous mode though. Don't get me wrong, those teams who figure it out should definitely get a few points head start when teleoperated mode starts, but often-times, with powerhouse autonomous teams, the match is decided before players get a chance to touch their controls.

Alec

Usually those powerhouse auto teams are overall powerhouse robots. Even if they can touch controls odds are they wont win anyway. To beat one, you either need to have another powerhouse on your team, have an amazing match, or have the powerhouse tip over. Also, the match really isnt decided in auto mode unless there are 2 great auto teams.

Lets look at this for a minute. The most I could ever see a team POSSIBLY getting is 32 points. I dont think we will see that happen very often. If I knew I was playing a team that could do that I would make a defensive auto mode, without just parking in the corner, but for this situation, we'll say I didnt. If all 3 robots on my team can cross 2 lines, and maybe knock a ball off. Thats 24 poins for lines plus 8 for a ball for a total of 32 points. Thats the same as the power house auto mode, with 3 fairly simple autos. Now lets say the other alliance has the power house and 2 bots that can cross 2 lines. They are getting a 16 point head start over the other alliance. Thats not too much, only 2 hurdles which is very possible to come back from.

Not to be rude, but everyon needs to stop complaining about the rule. Its here, move on, its done with. Work on some legal auto modes because they didnt rule out defense completely. They just want to make people think a little because anyone could say "Just drive 3 feet and stop". Think outside the box. There are legal defensive auto modes, you just need to think. Also if all teams can get at least 2 lines, which isnt TOO hard, you will never be completely dominated by a powerhouse auto team.
Joey

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Im glad to see this update. It gives the chance for people to show off their programming skills.
What would you rather see in a match?
robots crossing one line? Or robots crossing 5+?
Id have to say that the 5+ is the fun thing to view.

[hillale]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

Im glad to see this update. It gives the chance for people to show off their programming skills.
What would you rather see in a match?
robots crossing one line? Or robots crossing 5+?
Id have to say that the 5+ is the fun thing to view.

Well... when facing said robot, I'm sure that you'll find 1 line is plenty (much as I do). Let's just put our differences aside and play the game. Good golly.


Alec Hill

I personally don't agree with the update and feel that it will separate the tiers of competitive robots to an insurmountable clash of titans with the peasants onlooking...

[Zyik]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

The most I could ever see a team POSSIBLY getting is 32 points.

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...p?matchid=5361

40 points for one alliance in hybrid. Yes, thats the finals, so you know that both sides have very decent teams, but still. Just wanted to get that out there.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by Zyik

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...p?matchid=5361

40 points for one alliance in hybrid. Yes, thats the finals, so you know that both sides have very decent teams, but still. Just wanted to get that out there.

Did u see the tight spots 148 can get into?
No wonder they are the only undefeated team in FIRST right now.

[Kristian Calhoun]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

Lets look at this for a minute. The most I could ever see a team POSSIBLY getting is 32 points.

Originally Posted by Zyik

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...p?matchid=5361

40 points for one alliance in hybrid. Yes, thats the finals, so you know that both sides have very decent teams, but still. Just wanted to get that out there.

Even higher - Qualification Match 58 at the New Jersey Regional had 52 points scored in the hybrid period. 1 robot passed 5 lines and knocked down both balls (36 points) while the other two each passed two lines (8 pts each).

The SOAP video doesn't show much of the field - I'm working on getting a copy of the video that our scouts took (static whole field view).