Important 80 inches!!!

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by geeknerd99

We were penalized for that during our last match, semifinal #2. We tipped over, and we were asessed a 10-pt. penalty on top of losing anyway.

Di you immediately push your e-stop button?

[Danny McC]

I know I saw. I'm sorry about the loss. Im just stating the the refs will go on the field and measure.

[efoote868]

This is the "30 fps" rule of '06. If a team does do it, and no one notices, then how can anyone assess a penalty?

That said, be weary of your opponents during the matches, and if you think they're outside of 80", kindly pull aside a referee and ask, hey, aren't they greater than 80"? Then you've done all you can do, and you can only hope for the best.

Would someone post the rule for 80" (I need a refresher on it, before I can have more opinions). My last thought: If a team was tipping over, or entangled on the overpass in such a way that they exceeded 80", does it violate the rule? Seems to me that a few degrees could make all the difference to the teams that are soft-stopped at 80", but when they start going over...

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

That is flawed logic. The exact same argument could be made for failing robots that are geared to travel faster than 4ft/s (eliminate high speed ramming), or practically any other rule (hey, if teams don't build a robot, they can't impede, lets just fail anyone who shows up with a robot).

So what happens if a penalty is called on your team for extending past 80in? I see where you are coming from, however this is one thing that the refs wouldnt have needed to worry about. It would be alot easier for the inspection crew to measure the rubuts full length than try to measure robot speed.
Joey

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by Danny McC

Actually im pretty sure at VCU yesturday a team tipped over and the refs went out onto the field to measure them.

That was probably at the end of the match though. I highly doubt you will see a ref pause the match so they can go measure a robot they think is longer than 80in.
Joey

[geeknerd99]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Di you immediately push your e-stop button?

I was robocoaching, but I was giving the E-Stop signal frantically. I don't know if it actually got pushed or not.

Would it have made a difference if we hadn't prevented the other team from accessing both of their trackballs? We did not have a way to retract our arm, so we were stuck in the expanded position.

[IndySam]

Are the refs being informed of the robots that can exceed 80" on a routine basis? How is this accomplished?

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Are the refs being informed of the robots that can exceed 80" on a routine basis? How is this accomplished?

The inspection crew puts a sticker on the robot that shows it can exceed 80in.
Joey

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by rc_cola1323

But they went over 80 inches, so is it going to be inforced? Yes i totally agree with the fact that they shouldn't pass inspection

When exactly did "they" go over 80 inches? Please clarify.

Originally Posted by efoote868

If a team was tipping over, or entangled on the overpass in such a way that they exceeded 80", does it violate the rule?

Yes, they are over 80 inches.

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

however this is one thing that the refs wouldnt have needed to worry about.

If a robot is CAPABLE of exceeding 80 inches, then the Refs DO need to worry about it. However if the robot is NOT CAPABLE of exceeding 80 inches no matter what, then the Refs do NOT need to worry about watching that robot for violations.

Now do you understand why some robots are marked and others are not? (As Russ Beavis explained in the second post.)

Don

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

The inspection crew puts a sticker on the robot that shows it can exceed 80in.
Joey

But do the refs routinely check for these stickers? I bet not. They have so much that they have to do already. Is the entire ref crew made aware of the posibility and how it can occur?

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

So what happens if a penalty is called on your team for extending past 80in? I see where you are coming from, however this is one thing that the refs wouldnt have needed to worry about. It would be alot easier for the inspection crew to measure the rubuts full length than try to measure robot speed.
Joey

It depends on the circumstance. Our robot has a two-jointed arm, and if the wrist and shoulder are both straight out, we violate the rule. In proper operation, the software allows two shoulder states, up and down, which have their exact position chosen to make it impossible for us to go over 80" no matter what the position of the wrist is*. The software also controls the transition between these two states, so the wrist can't extend too far then either. For us to violate the 80" rule it we would have to either have a code error (which would be very obvious and result in us hitting the e-stop immediately given how dangerous our arm can be), or fall over. There isn't anything we can do about preventing the falling over problem, which affects any robot that uses an arm or forklift to hurdle. Anyway, my point is that in either case it would be very obvious that we had exceeded the limit and would go along with the ref's decision.

*Those that saw our robot at VCU will note that this is not how our arm acted. We were having mysterious bugs with our PID loop for the shoulder joint, which forced us to go over to fully manual control for all of our matches (we finally got it working while eliminations were being played). So, at VCU, we could have violated the 80" rule if our arm driver had messed up. If that had happened, we would again not protest the ref's decision because they have a much better view of our robot's profile than we do from the player's station.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

If a robot is CAPABLE of exceeding 80 inches, then the Refs DO need to worry about it. However if the robot is NOT CAPABLE of exceeding 80 inches no matter what, then the Refs do NOT need to worry about watching that robot for violations.

Now do you understand why some robots are marked and others are not? (As Russ Beavis explained in the second post.)Don

They still need to check and see if a team has a sticker, and if they do they need to watch them. I understand the stickers, but I think it could have been something easily taken off the refs job. Many people are complaining about missed calls, in fact that is what this thread was about. The less things the refs need to pay attention to, the easier their jobs are.
Joey

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by IndySam

But do the refs routinely check for these stickers? I bet not. They have so much that they have to do already. Is the entire ref crew made aware of the posibility and how it can occur?

I agree, they already have to much to look out for. They shouldnt need to worry about this. I dont know if the whole crew if informed.
Joey

[waialua359]

When our alliance partner 401 fell over and "violated" the 80" rule which was not in their control once they fell, it should not have been a penalty if the e-stop button is pressed. Just my opinion.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

As asked previously...
<R16> Once the MATCH has started, the ROBOT may assume a PLAYING CONFIGURATION that exceeds the size dimensions specified in Rule <R11>. While in the PLAYING CONFIGURATION, the ROBOT may expand up to a maximum horizontal dimension of 80 inches (e.g. all parts of the ROBOT must fit within an imaginary 80-inch-diameter upright cylinder). There are no height limits for a ROBOT in its PLAYING CONFIGURATION at anytime after the start of the MATCH.

You guys need to give the refs some credit. This year they are the highest trained volunteers on the floor. If they know your robot is capable and they think you have exceeded the limit, they will call it. For those that have not yet attended a regional, there is a test circle in the inspection station for checking. As during 06, the refs become very familiar with the operation of all robots by the end of practice. They could tell what robots were exceeding the ball speed limit and they will be able to tell those that exceed the 80" rule. The stickers merely helps them recognize the robots that are capable of exceeding, not those that do.