Defense, It's still here.

[Steve W]

I believe that I saw some of the best defence played this week at FLR. The team that did a fantastic job happened to be on the winning alliance. Team 2053 played the part perfectly shutting down some great robots on the way to victory. They were so good that their opponents got penalties trying to play around them. If and when videos become available watch the elimination rounds and especially the matches that Moe played against 2053.

Defence is not only alive but is thriving.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I believe that I saw some of the best defence played this week at FLR. The team that did a fantastic job happened to be on the winning alliance. Team 2053 played the part perfectly shutting down some great robots on the way to victory. They were so good that their opponents got penalties trying to play around them. If and when videos become available watch the elimination rounds and especially the matches that Moe played against 2053.

Defence is not only alive but is thriving.

For those of us who haven't seen matches from FLR,could we get an explanation of what they did and why it worked so well?

[David Brinza]

Starting Friday afternoon in San Diego, we employed some stiff defense. We were warned by the head ref that some teams felt we were being too aggressive. We made a very conscious effort to avoid contacting robots in the act of hurdling, we would move within 4 seconds of impeding and secured our gripper arms so they could not make contact outside of an opponent's bumper zone.

We were correctly issued a "yellow card" for a high-speed ram against our friends (Team 968) in our final qualification match - our driver was simply too late in backing off the stick. Otherwise, we had no penalties associated with playing some rather tenacious defense.

Without defense, this game will become an exhibition and will lose a lot of the excitement.

[s_forbes]

Carl Hayden (842) played some amazing defense on the almost unbeatable 39 robot in AZ. It was a combination of depriving them of the ball and 'irritating' them on their way around the track. They almost beat them in the first semi final match, but the 39/60/1165 combination was able to pull off a win.

[tennispro9911]

Defense is going to be a huge part of the game. I'm the driver for 2053 and we basically took away one of the balls for the other team by preventing them from getting to it. We frustrated MOE and some other very very good teams. MOE was consistently getting 5 or 6 hurdles each match and I fully expect them to win a regional and be a force at Championships.

[hipsterjr]

At Florida, in a few matches we played heavy defense (getting in between balls, pushing bots they were not hurdling, impeding for less than 5 sec) and it worked great. The only problem is that the refs frowned heavily on this. We were warned several times that "overdrive is and offense game." Was it like this at other regionals?

[Madison]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

At Florida, in a few matches we played heavy defense (getting in between balls, pushing bots they were not hurdling, impeding for less than 5 sec) and it worked great. The only problem is that the refs frowned heavily on this. We were warned several times that "overdrive is and offense game." Was it like this at other regionals?

Who was it that "warned" you, out of curiousity?

[hipsterjr]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Who was it that "warned" you, out of curiousity?

the refs

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

At Florida, in a few matches we played heavy defense (getting in between balls, pushing bots they were not hurdling, impeding for less than 5 sec) and it worked great. The only problem is that the refs frowned heavily on this. We were warned several times that "overdrive is and offense game." Was it like this at other regionals?

In the future, I would show any who possess such mentality the following GDC response:

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=9019

"FIRST Overdrive has never been defined as an "all-offense, no-defense game." Defensive strategies, used appropriately, are perfectly acceptable."

Straight from the horses' mouths. If you play it within the rules, especially the opponent trackball manipulation, then go for it.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by hipsterjr

At Florida, in a few matches we played heavy defense (getting in between balls, pushing bots they were not hurdling, impeding for less than 5 sec) and it worked great. The only problem is that the refs frowned heavily on this. We were warned several times that "overdrive is and offense game." Was it like this at other regionals?

Somebody tell team 8 that! In SVR finals, they played legal (mostly) defense.

[danshaffer]

Originally Posted by EricH

Somebody tell team 8 that! In SVR finals, they played legal (mostly) defense.

"Ball denial" (as we're calling it now) was discussed at length between our drivers and rule lawyers and the head ref at SVR. Some of the illegal contact (for which we were penalized) occurred because it was behind the glass and so our drivers could not see where our robot or other robots were. The head ref understood this issue, but merely suggested that we send our robocoach to the other end of the field to mitigate this issue... not exactly an ideal solution.

[octothorpe]

Originally Posted by EricH

they played legal (mostly) defense.

Mostly is right. I like the defensive action in this year's game and I think Paly did a great job of taking that on, but during the second match of the SVR finals in particular I definitely saw some uncalled possession of the opposing alliance's trackball (i.e. trackball resting on their robot's arm).

[Josh Fox]

Defense is definitely alive and well in Overdrive. Just because it's not as obvious as in previous years, a good defensive player can truly alter the outcome of a game.

Things like movement of an opponent's ball, and even pausing for a second while in front of a team's robot can usually take their score down by at least a hurdle due to the time it takes to control these giant trackballs, and by the amount of time you can delay a team. Sure, you may not be blocking a ringer, but it's all of the subtle delays that can truly impact this year's game.

In my opinion anyway.

[Guy Davidson]

Originally Posted by octothorpe

Mostly is right. I like the defensive action in this year's game and I think Paly did a great job of taking that on, but during the second match of the SVR finals in particular I definitely saw some uncalled possession of the opposing alliance's trackball (i.e. trackball resting on their robot's arm).

The referees were only calling it when it was clearly intentional. If not, then I would be confused as to how it wasn't called during match number three, or its replay, where a blue trackball was sitting on their robot.

Regardless, we played defense as allowed be the rules as the refs were calling them. Our ball denial strategy was deemed perfectly legal by ourselves and the referees (assuming, of course, there is a lane around us, otherwise we're impeding). We believe Overdrive to be just like any other FIRST challenge from recent years: there are rules. Whatever you can do, that is legal according to the rules, is fair game. We play hard, but we play fair.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by sumadin

The referees were only calling it when it was clearly intentional.

If you are intentionally playing defense on a ball and you posses it, even if it is accidental, it should be a penalty. <G29> doesn't specify intent. The only time it shouldn't be a penalty is when it is when it is caused by an opponent as per <G23> (like when a hurdled ball fall into a shooter bot).

I am not talking about any specific match example but just the rule in general. Trackball defense is legal and a good strategy in many cases. However, if the unintended side effects of a team's trackball defense is trackball possession then it is clearly a penalty and that team is responsible.