Let's Put the Professionalism back in Gracious Professionalism

[Leav]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

So is this a discussion of the members of CD being critical of people who post in CD?

Or is this a discussion of how FIRST operates?

Or is this a discussion regarding being critical in general?

When I read threads, I often find the balance of opinions in the threads. So many points of view, perspectives, opinions. I rarely see any slamming, I see passion and reason often trying to find a way to work together.

I may have derailed the post Jane, so please everyone get back to the original topic if I got it wrong...

Jane, I agree with you on most threads... except those which criticize FIRST.
CD is only a single case which acts as an indicator.

People are unable comprehend that FIRST may be doing something wrong on a basic level.
That something may be less than ideal in the way things are running now.
The common knee jerk reaction a criticizer would get is: "you are wrong if you say that FIRST has flaws."

Assuming that you have reached perfection is always the very first step on the road to ruin.


-Leav

Professionalism usually comes after experience. We have to realize that FIRST is made up of High School students, which means they have a long way to go until they're truly professional.

I've had very personal experience with the lack of professional behavior by teams, and I wish I could say it was a rare incident. However, it seems that GP is only something to be touted when someone isn't following it, or when it's time to pack up and head to the competitions. If FIRST students took GP to heart, we'd see a lot less complaining about issues, and lot more solutions being posted.

[Jim E]

I understand Kathy's concerns. Whether to agree or disagree with her statements, is another issue. The criticisms she brings are vague and generalized as Jane has pointed out. This 'sounds like' venting frustration. CD provides a good forum for that, and venting is good in this sense, because of the neutrality in Kathy's statements.

FIRST is an organization with goals and objectives that probably extend beyond my comprehension. Some may even incorrectly say it is cult-like.

As with any organization, church, religion, or club, there may be things you have an issue with. The best way to find answers is to approach the offending party direct.

My past and present employers have always implemented an open-door policy. If your supervisor cannot answer your grievance, then you are encouraged to take it to the next level of management. This type of policy is not only professional, but gracious in that everything is kept confidential until the facts are known. Businesses take this very serious. FIRST is also a business.

I'm rambling now, but if you have an issue with the game rules, ship deadlines, lack of compassion for missed work periods because of snow days, missed deadlines for entries, the color of the FIRST emblem, etc,etc,etc,...take it to the next level.

CD forum is meant to be a tool to help students and mentors learn about robotics and discuss the FIRST games in an independent forum.

Hopefully nobody takes offense to my comments. But with the CD Forum being as large as it is, the chances are pretty good someone will disagree....(which is good)

EDIT: For team conflicts bordering on Sexual harassment, color, creed, gender or religious preference, there are LAWS against this. File a police report and also contact your regional FIRST director to file a complaint if necessary. They are listed on www.usfirst.org

[Jonathan Norris]

Katy,

I totally agree with you on this one, there are many times where I have felt a need to share my opinion on a controversial issue within FIRST, but have chosen not to express my views here on CD because of the stigma of my opinion being labeled 'not GP'. I certainly believe that this forum takes a much brighter look on FIRST then it should at times. The forum as a whole can take the Gracious part of Gracious Professionalism a little too far. There needs to be dialogue about the main issues in FIRST, and I believe they have been hidden under the covers away from the public view of the members of CD. It seems like there is an opinion that these type of conversations criticizing issues within FIRST should be taken up Privately and not openly, and the odd time they truly get discussed here on CD the people with the critical views get attacked by the GP police. It seems like debating problems with FIRST is almost looked down upon here on CD, hopefully in the future we can have professional discussions about these issues within FIRST and help solve them together.

[Katy]

Not to be rude but I prefer to be called Katy over Kathy. Thanks.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I'm not quite understanding this post/thread.

To begin with, I don't understand how this post is anonymously coauthored. Katy has posted this/started this thread and Katy is the one who will receive the responses.
Jane

The post is coauthored because I am not the sole author of it. The idea was discussed, I did a lot of writing, and then there was editing and more ideas added. I feel somewhat bad being unable to speak further on the issue but I would feel unprofessional to violate the trust of my coauthor(s) by saying more.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

The second thought that comes to mind is that this is obviously a post that has some concerns but I don't understand what the concerns are. There are generalities but no specifics that I can grasp and that may be why I'm somewhat confused.

Jane

It pains me substantially to not post links to examples of the sorts of behavior I am attempting to discuss. However, I feel that to point out specific individuals in a debate of this variety would be implying that they are un-GP. Personally I believe GP is a standard to live by, not to judge others by. Additionally as a professional I would feel unethical pointing at people and implying that they are not GP in topic that is meant in part to discuss the negative impact of people labeling others un-GP.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

So is this a discussion of the members of CD being critical of people who post in CD?

Or is this a discussion of how FIRST operates?

Or is this a discussion regarding being critical in general?

This discussion was mainly intended to be the first and the third. I want to talk about the fact that it is appropriate and often for the good of FIRST to provide meaningful constructive criticism. I want to discuss the fact that this criticism should be regarded by other individuals as an opportunity for thought and not immediately attacked. This is true on and off CD.

I feel that people are confusing "being gracious" with "not disagreeing." You can disagree graciously and if you believe that disagreeing is correct and have facts to back disagreeing is in fact quite professional.

Here it is in a nutshell. There are people asking the tough questions in FIRST. There are more people who would probably like to ask their own questions. However, after seeing those who are currently asking the hard questions dismissed or vilified the latter group of people are shying away from speaking their mind. I feel this is a dangerous and unhealthy environment for FIRST to be in. I would like to see people be more accepting so that other people can feel a little safer. I would also like to inspire those who feel there is something that needs to be said and have the facts to back it up. Hopefully, despite their fear, they will say it anyway.

Does this clarify?

[JaneYoung]

Yes.
Thank you, Katy.
Now I can think about this discussion and understand its source of frustration, initially.
Jane

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by Katy

Here it is in a nutshell. There are people asking the tough questions in FIRST. There are more people who would probably like to ask their own questions... ...Hopefully, despite their fear, they will say it anyway.

Now that have multiple "seconds" to the OP's statement, can we get down to specifics?
What are these Issues?
How can we keep minority or alternate opinions/assessments from getting sensored by the "GP police?"

If the goal of this post is to find a solution, this is the next logical step.

[Lil' Lavery]

I whole-heartedly agree with the concept behind this post.
I do think people need to think before they post though, and many thoughts, comments, and criticisms are often posted while teams/individuals are still hot about an issue and it comes across the wrong way, or is an isolated event that doesn't even really merit discussion in the first place. Sometimes it seems like people are nit-picking or kicking a dead horse about certain issues. Others there are legitimate concerns that are worthy of further investigation.

I feel this also applies towards opinions and discussions of teams as well. Not in so much how they are discussed (and frankly, many times people have ignored the principles of GP when discussing other teams they dislike), but in the general viewing of how other teams operate. Many seem to forget this is a competition, and that the goal of a competition is to win. As a result, teams that openly have the goal of succeeding in competition are often ridiculed and harassed. These teams operate fully within the rules and guidelines of FIRST, and I hate to see teams blasted for using their mentors in different ways, declining (or picking a team that will decline) a selection, or working to improve their RP. Many of these teams are also among the best and brightest in virtually every other aspect of FIRST as well, including spreading the message of FIRST. Just because they remember the professionalism in GP, and that it is professional to do your job at competition well (ie win), doesn't mean they aren't gracious.