Overdrive <G22> poll: yea or nay?

[JesseK]

Pre-VCU, I would have said "Bad but can be fixed". Post-VCU after actually experiencing it, I'd say "Good but can be improved". I'd like some sort of indicator for when a violation has happened, much like what Al said and for the same reasons.

Thanks for the detailed poll Alan, and a bump.

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

If it really, truly was such an easy rule for everyone to follow, then why is this penalty being assessed more than any other rule that I can think of in the history of FIRST?

I don't know if anyone said it was and easy rule to FOLLOW, but it is an easy rule to understand. It is part of the game challenge and, as such, should be penalized if not followed. It's not necessarily supposed to be easy. In fact, I would argue that part of what makes FIRST fun is that it is NOT easy. Yes, it can make the game difficult for spectators (and teams also), but if it is a big concern then teams need to adjust their strategies to try to avoid receiving this penalty.

[Steve W]

The most tense time in a match and the one that draws everyone in is just before the scores are announced. Did someone get penalized? Were the real time scores correct? Who really won? How much more drama can be added than that? The teams that win celebrate and the teams that lose should celebrate too. It doesn't matter how you "correct" the rule there will still be variances and close calls. There will still be unhappy people. There will still be complaints. To be honest how can FIRST make us all happy? How many people in reality really are totally upset and disgruntled? Most of those that I saw at the one regional I was at were having a great time and were accepting what was happening as part of the game.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

<SNIP>
However, there are great many areas of the field that for one reason or another, the drivers cannot see that they are in violation. How can a driver 30 feet away, looking through a two lexan panels with reflections and a multitude of vertical poles, tell that their bumper which is several inches off the floor and in bad light, has just crossed backwards over the lane marker by 1/4". (The parallax in this situation is tremendous) There is just no way that can occur.
<SNIP>

Here I must disagree with you.

The rule has been in place since kickoff. The designs for the field, a week later. Teams that did not look at the field setup and where the blind spots would be are now complaining because they cannot see their robot.

It is not the GDCs fault that some teams did not take into account field design and driver viewing angle (I learned all abot that in Stack Attack) when they worked on their strategy and now, because of this failing, they want the rules to change.

All I can say is I am very happy that the GDC decided to not change the rules.

P.S. As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?


JM(NS)HO

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?

It would be neat to see the position of the robocoach mined further for the value that it offers in this game as part of the drive team/alliance.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

P.S. As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?


JM(NS)HO

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It would be neat to see the position of the robocoach mined further for the value that it offers in this game as part of the drive team/alliance.

Remember that you have to be in the RoboCoach Zone on your side of the field. Side, not end. If you are Red, you can be in a RoboCoach Zone next to either color Alliance (drive) Zone, but you must be on the Red side of the field (same side as the Red Finish Line).

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Remember that you have to be in the RoboCoach Zone on your side of the field. Side, not end. If you are Red, you can be in a RoboCoach Zone next to either color Alliance (drive) Zone, but you must be on the Red side of the field (same side as the Red Finish Line).

Gary,
Apologies for being unclear.
I meant that I would like to see the robocoach position continue to be looked at for its value. That was what I meant.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

P.S. As far as viewing the robot ... have you ever considered putting your robocoach on the other side of the field and give hand signals?


JM(NS)HO

Yes. Planned on it from Day 1. Placing a coach in the far right position gives them a better angle to view passing lanes as your bot makes the lane change from your side of the field to the opposing side, where a lot of the congestion takes place.

Now getting our drive team to appropriately view and utilize our robocoach's hand signal feedback - we're still working on that one.

[johnr]

I haven't seen a field or comp in person yet so could someone tell me if all driver stations have a clear view of their down field robocoach? I was hopping that the robocoach could give hand signal to driver to take inside or outside turn.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Gary,
Apologies for being unclear.
I meant that I would like to see the robocoach position continue to be looked at for its value. That was what I meant.

Jane, you weren't unclear. At Kettering we had to keep moving Red RoboCoaches from one side of the Blue Alliance Zone to the other side, so they would be in a Red RoboCoach Zone. (And vice-versa, there was no monopoly on color mismatches.) The RoboCoach had only gotten the instruction from their team, "Go down to the other end and signal us when ..." forgetting she had to be in the proper color zone.

Perhaps the zones should be marked out in colored gaffer tape, not white.

Another reminder - after Hybrid is over, the RoboCoach can move into the Alliance Zone (if on the same end of the field, of course).

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by johnr

I haven't seen a field or comp in person yet so could someone tell me if all driver stations have a clear view of their down field robocoach? I was hopping that the robocoach could give hand signal to driver to take inside or outside turn.

I have not been to a comp either, but based on the pictures I saw earlier in another <G22> thread there is a good chance that you cannot see them clearly if you are in the far left station - you would have to look through the center barrier. However, as Paul Copioli also pointed out, the coach can make use of the fact that he/she can move throughout your entire alliance zone to try to get a view of things.

[Lil' Lavery]

Through a misunderstanding about a signaling device, 116 thought of an interesting use of robocoaches for purposes such as directing your drive team. Initially a 116 member didn't realize that 1731's signaling device (4 massive colored flashlights) was being read by a CMU cam on the robot, and thought it was being used to signal the drive crew. We then realized that signaling devices such as that actually could be extraordinarily effective (more so than hand signals, which are visible, but hard to see) for signaling to your drive crew as well as your robot.
Additionally remember that you may still use your robocoach for actually signaling the robot during the tele-operated phase of the game as well. Depending on your programming, it may or may not make sense to have your robocoach help navigate the opposite corners of the field to avoid programming (or at least act as an anti-penalty check if you give him/her some sort of power to stop the robot).

[Phyrxes]

Having seen the pictures on here our Drive team checked out the field at VCU as soon as they were able and pronounced it "not as bad as the pictures." As the field lighting varies by arena this wasn't a big surprise.

[kborer22]

I agree with the comments that "intent" should be determined. At the AZ regional there was a match with 120 or 130 penalty points (can’t remember which) and 90-100 of them were in Hybrid mode, the team was just spinning in circles around the lines, not intentionally I would imagine. I think when a situation like this arises, completely taking an alliance out of a match before it really begins warrants change. I can understand rules for robots destroying the field, or leaving the field of play, which deserves an E-stop/disable from the refs, but this seems a little excessive. Also; there seems to be about 20-30 penalty point average in most matches from what I have seen (NJ/Az regional).

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by kborer22

I agree with the comments that "intent" should be determined. At the AZ regional there was a match with 120 or 130 penalty points (can’t remember which) and 90-100 of them were in Hybrid mode, the team was just spinning in circles around the lines, not intentionally I would imagine. I think when a situation like this arises, completely taking an alliance out of a match before it really begins warrants change. I can understand rules for robots destroying the field, or leaving the field of play, which deserves an E-stop/disable from the refs, but this seems a little excessive. Also; there seems to be about 20-30 penalty point average in most matches from what I have seen (NJ/Az regional).

Advocates of for G22 would tell you to hit the Estop to prevent the bot from racking up so many penalties. But then again it probably wasn't your bot that incurred all of the penalties. This seems to be that "luck" factor that's required to take you to the finals.

I like the cross-field signalling idea. Currently our robocoach sits on our side after Hybrid and cheers when we do something great, and that's about it. I never noticed if 1731 used their signaling device in teleoperated mode.