hybrid rules are not quite stable..

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

The red alliance also ended the match with 68 pts. before bonus, not the 76 pts. you see on the final score. The Real Time Scoring is unofficial. It may contain mistakes that the refs cannot correct until the end of the match.

To my knowledge, the real-time scoring input is the only method referees have for recording the score during the match. Only for counting laps during teleoperated mode is it the redundant system. In such a case, it's absurd to think that they're meant to input the score on those devices, mentally recall every scoring action, and watch and call penalties correctly -- and all simultaneously.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

To my knowledge, the real-time scoring input is the only method referees have for recording the score during the match. Only for counting laps during teleoperated mode is it the redundant system. In such a case, it's absurd to think that they're meant to input the score on those devices, mentally recall every scoring action, and watch and call penalties correctly -- and all simultaneously.

Apparently I did not express the intent of my post clearly.

One or more of the first couple posts in this thread appeared to say "OMG St. Louis Regional is tainted this matched was messed up SOOOOO BAD."

I was merely trying to say that the official recorded score appears to be correct, including the knockdown of the red alliance's trackball during hybrid by 525.

I was not trying to say that this is something to be relied on, or that it happens often.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

I was merely trying to say that the official recorded score appears to be correct, including the knockdown of the red alliance's trackball during hybrid by 525.

I was not trying to say that this is something to be relied on, or that it happens often.

Also, this could be a case of the announcer saying one thing and the score being entirely different. Often, an announcer may say something that the head ref may disagree with.

Announcers don't keep the score. They are fairly outgoing people, make witty remarks, and wear goofy shirts. We can't take them too seriously.

Andy b.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Yes, it is true that this years game has alot of human responsibility to keep track of score.
In our Quarterfinals match 2, it said that we only went around the track once. when that is what we did the whole match while playing defense is lap.we were defending HOT, doing just as many laps as they did but yet they got 5 laps i think. (we still woulda lost the match, its just that the scores could be affected such as this case.)
It should be noted that FIRST has never had this much human calculation to worry about. 6 robots crossing 2 different lines while having balls cross seperate from the robot, and then balls flying over. I think the game should have less human scoring and more automated.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

To my knowledge, the real-time scoring input is the only method referees have for recording the score during the match. Only for counting laps during teleoperated mode is it the redundant system. In such a case, it's absurd to think that they're meant to input the score on those devices, mentally recall every scoring action, and watch and call penalties correctly -- and all simultaneously.

Much is being asked of FRC referees this year. Watching all the robots and trackballs, entering raw scorekeeping data, and calling penalties all at the same time is not absurd -- only very difficult. I recall a few instances of referees accompanying the head ref to the scoring table after a match had ended, to explain to the scorekeeper (in detail) both why and how a score needed adjusting to correct for a data entry mistake that had been made while the match was being played. After the scoring data had been corrected, the same referee was called over to discuss penalties. What amazes me is that our referee/scorekeeping/field volunteers were able to meet these challenges while keeping the matches on schedule.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

To my knowledge, the real-time scoring input is the only method referees have for recording the score during the match. Only for counting laps during teleoperated mode is it the redundant system. In such a case, it's absurd to think that they're meant to input the score on those devices, mentally recall every scoring action, and watch and call penalties correctly -- and all simultaneously.

I filled in as the "manual scorekeeper" (pen & paper records of final scores) for about 10-15 matches at VCU. During that span, scores were adjusted from the real time scores in at least 3 matches. Hybrid was the most common adjustment, as refs knew they had either missed pressing the button or pressed it one too many times, etc.
Also note that there are nine refs this year, one on each corner, two on each finish line (one for balls, one for bots) and one head ref. They do talk to each other and pick up each other's mistakes more than most people think they do.