Silicon Valley Regional 2008

[Paul Copioli]

I am amazed that the refs allowed this at BAE. It is a clear violation of G22. You're entire robot is in the home stretch then part of your robot goes into the previous quadrant without your robot ever leaving the home stretch.

CCW and CW are relative to the field, not the robot. The turret moving CCW with respect to the robot has nothing to do with going CCW on the field. It is the same thing as a robot going into the home stretch, then spinning CCW and breaking the plane.

I am baffled as to how the rule can be distorted to make this legal.

[rsilverstein]

Does anyone have a video of them in action?

[Paul Copioli]

Can someone point me to the actual Q & A that was asked? The only one I found was the question regarding dropping the trackball. By the way, the GDC made it clear in that response that their intent was that the ball would be dropped from approximately the height of the overpass. If 190 is dropping it from just above the ground, then I would so much as say they are "lawyering" the rules because the GDC made their intent clear in the Q & A response.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Can someone point me to the actual Q & A that was asked? The only one I found was the question regarding dropping the trackball. By the way, the GDC made it clear in that response that their intent was that the ball would be dropped from approximately the height of the overpass. If 190 is dropping it from just above the ground, then I would so much as say they are "lawyering" the rules because the GDC made their intent clear in the Q & A response.

The Q&A is here

[Ty Tremblay]

Originally Posted by Fred Sayre

HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS
and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.

So the ball crosses the finish line, but is still touching the machine which does not meet this definition of a hurdle. This definition indicates that at least the machine has to lose contact with the ball before the ball has completely crosses the finish line.

The ball can be in contact with the originating robot while it is crossing the finish line. If you look closely at the wording, the only conditions for a hurdle are that the ball contacts either the ground or another robot before contacting the originating robot. Thus, 190 remains in contact with the ball over the finish line (legal) and lowers it to a manageable height (legal), releases the ball (completing one hurdle), and re-raises the ball so that the turret can then bring the ball completely across the opponents finish line ("resetting" the ball). Rinse and repeat.

/Edit: Also, according to the referees at BAE, 190 is protected under <G42> during a very significant amount of this maneuver (>60%)

[Michael DiRamio]

At what height is 190 dropping the ball from? (I haven't seen any video)

This Q & A would imply that they would need to drop the ball from the height of the overpass.

[Fred Sayre]

Originally Posted by icdumbpeeps305

The ball can be in contact with the originating robot while it is crossing the finish line. If you look closely at the wording, the only conditions for a hurdle are that the ball contacts either the ground or another robot before contacting the originating robot. Thus, 190 remains in contact with the ball over the finish line (legal) and lowers it to a manageable height (legal), releases the ball (completing one hurdle), and re-raises the ball so that the turret can then bring the ball completely across the opponents finish line ("resetting" the ball). Rinse and repeat.

/Edit: Also, according to the referees at BAE, 190 is protected under <G42> during a very significant amount of this maneuver (>60%)

The wording of the rule indicates that contact would be lost before the ball finishes crossing the finish line. The original intent of hurdling was to be a bonus for completing the same task as herding but over the overpass which would not suggest carrying the ball over and at some arbitrary time letting go and recapturing the ball.

The rule says the ball crosses the finish line and then before contacting the originating robot (too late! it is still in contact with the originating robot!) the ball must touch the ground or another machine. The order seems pretty clear to me. I don't see how this rule would suggest you can carry the ball over, and at some completely arbitrary time (or height?!) lose contact with the ball.

And to clarify, yes the ball can be in contact with the machine WHILE the ball is crossing the finish line. But not in between when it has CROSSED, and before it touches the ground or another machine.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Fred Sayre

(Rules quote)HURDLE: When a TRACKBALL CROSSES a FINISH LINE while passing above the OVERPASS and then contacts either the floor or another ROBOT before re-contacting the originating ROBOT.
(Fred wrote)
So the ball crosses the finish line, but is still touching the machine which does not meet this definition of a hurdle. This definition indicates that at least the machine has to lose contact with the ball before the ball has completely crosses the finish line.

I think, Fred, that with this interpretation any time a robot mechanism extends over the finish line during hurdling, the hurdle wouldn't count. Based on observations in Oregon and in watching Peachtree and San Jose on webcasts, a fair number of the hurdling robots would be disqualified, as their mechanisms are still touching the ball after the ball has passed the plane of the finish line. I would definitely want this clarified before Seattle -- there are a lot more robots that would be affected by this than just 190.

[Fred Sayre]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

I think, Fred, that with this interpretation any time a robot mechanism extends over the finish line during hurdling, the hurdle wouldn't count. Based on observations in Oregon and in watching Peachtree and San Jose on webcasts, a fair number of the hurdling robots would be disqualified, as their mechanisms are still touching the ball after the ball has passed the plane of the finish line. I would definitely want this clarified before Seattle -- there are a lot more robots that would be affected by this than just 190.

I see what you are saying. I still think crossing the finish line with your machine is fine, but you could say the rule dictates that you don't touch the ball while it is crossing, and so as soon as it breaks the plane... and I think that might be the original intent of the rules. Certainly though, carrying the ball completely past the overpass was not though. Yeah, it needs to get resolved - hopefully in a team update after this weekend.

On re-reading the rules though, it seems like the def. of hurdle seems to indicate an order of events, crossing and then touching the ground or another machine. That means to me that until it is finished crossing the robot can be in possession.

[chaoticprout]

1) 100 - 254 - 115
2) 2024 - 192 - 8
3) 2473 - 1280 - 2643
4) 190 - 2141 - 2144
5) 846 - 2035 - 972
6) 670 - 668 - 2090
7) 1834 - 973 - 971
8) 692 - 604 - 766

[David Brinza]

Looks like a hot final:

#1 (100, 254, 115) vs #2 (8, 192, 2024).

A Woodside/Poofs alliance won CalGames last fall. I expect a fast and furious finals. Just about to start...

[Kevin Sevcik]

So who's writing the Q&A about that blatant incredibly basic scoring mistake by the refs in the final match?

[chaoticprout]

Never mind, they're playing another match.

[Rick TYler]

????

What was that call on the bonus ball? Blue had the ball scored, and then a red robot partially lifted it trying to descore, and they don't count the bonus for blue because the ball is touched (and a little supported) by a red robot? So, all you have to do is be in contact at the end to descore? Without going and looking at the rules, I think blue was ripped off.

Has blue filed a protest yet?

[T3_1565]

thats what I was thinking.... shouldn't that blue capped ball counted??