Two teams, one school - Good idea?

[ZakuAce]

Last year, our rookie year, we had A LOT of people on the team, upwords of 30. We found that having lots of people working in the same area actually slowed us down. We ended up scrambling at the end because for 5 weeks too many people were doing...whatever...and it was hard to keep track of what was going on.
This year, we split into a girls and boys team. Guys is 2077 Girls is 1988. There are 14 on the guys team and 4 on the girls. And it seems to be working out really well. We got organized much faster and are running a lot smoother.
One of the advantages of having two teams is being able to build two different robots. We saw this work out extremely well for the Martians 70 and 494, who had great robots. However, if I remember correctly, they built two robots that were almost exactly the same. We plan to have our robots perform different functions. One will be small and fast, so as to run around and score points, and the other to work with the trackball. And it would be awesome for our teams to pick each other if we make a seed.
One more thing: Although we are two teams, we are all from the same school. Therefore, we will help each other out. If one team is having problems and needs help, they don't ahve to go very far to look for help. We're really one big happy family (maybe not always happy, since we are going to have sleep deprivation for the next several weeks, but we have to stay positive!)

[KnottyPanda]

Originally Posted by Pirate_Nelly354

Thanks everyone for your input =]

We have taken those questions into account. I don't really like girls and boys divided so much but in this case I think it's a good idea. Most girls in G-House don't want to join. Why? They say girls can't do those type of things. I try to tell them otherwise though. I've been on the team three years now and I love it. I especially love showing people that I can get something done, boys aren't needed all the time. I think if girls see that we can get things done they will change their minds. They might be more likely to join if there's an all girls team.

I don't think a lot of team members are needed on a team. Two years ago we had the least about of members, 10. Yet, we got everything done. We did whatever we had to do because it was the most important thing to us.

It's a shame they're so reserved about joining a team that is predominantly males =\ i know we have a lot of kids on our team.... i can't spit out an accurate number, but i know it's more than seventeen, and we only have 5 girls. I sort of get a sense of pride in being able to work with the boys you know? Part of the reason i love first so much is because of all the awesome people you meet, that you may not have spoken to before. You wouldn't get that with an all girls team, i don't think. Even if there were enough girls to support a second team.... i feel like that many girls would just cause drama o.o; sorry if that's stereotypical but i'm a girl too so whatever.

[Pelicano234]

Last year was 2077 rookie year with about 23 guys and 4 girls. This year we started an all girl team, too. It has 3 girls and the guy team has 15 guys. So far, everything is working out O.K.

[jmu465]

Woodie always says "FIRST is NOT about the ROBOT..."

I agree with previous comments: there is plenty of opportunity in the other areas of the program--Chairman's, Woodie Flowers, animation, SWAG, Sprit, Imagery and community outreach. Two team schools always seem too focused on just the robot and forget about the core mission of FIRST.

In many ways a second team in one school is a terrible idea. Sponsor funding is limited. When incremental funding is available is it better spent on starting another team in a school that is already served? or a NEW team in a NEW school to introduce NEW students to FIRST and serve more students? To inspire more students to be science and technology leaders, I strongly feel serving more schools is better aligned with the Mission of FIRST.

Besides, are multiple teams allowed in any other competations? Band? Basketball? Football? Cheerleading? Dance Squad, Volleyball? No No No No No No. True, Male and Female leagues are common in sports, but I can see nothing about FIRST that would require parallel leagues.

JV teams are common to keep underclassmen interested in other activites. After a few years, plenty of spare hardware exists in the team to allow for JV builds. These JV builds can provide the hands on time needed to keep everybody interested has they prepare for their own Varisty years.

Finially, my experience leads me to believe that the best FIRST teams generally have a large diverse population with strong mentoring and solid community support. Pool your mentors, pool your community support and WELCOME every member of your student body to your ONE school team.

"FIRST is NOT about the ROBOT..."

[colin340]

Originally Posted by jmu465

Woodie always says "FIRST is NOT about the ROBOT..."

I agree with previous comments: there is plenty of opportunity in the other areas of the program--Chairman's, Woodie Flowers, animation, SWAG, Sprit, Imagery and community outreach. Two team schools always seem too focused on just the robot and forget about the core mission of FIRST.

In many ways a second team in one school is a terrible idea. Sponsor funding is limited. When incremental funding is available is it better spent on starting another team in a school that is already served? or a NEW team in a NEW school to introduce NEW students to FIRST and serve more students? To inspire more students to be science and technology leaders, I strongly feel
serving more schools is better aligned with the Mission of FIRST.

Besides, are multiple teams allowed in any other competations? Band? Basketball? Football? Cheerleading? Dance Squad, Volleyball? No No No No No No. True, Male and Female leagues are common in sports, but I can see nothing about FIRST that would require parallel leagues.

JV teams are common to keep underclassmen interested in other activites. After a few years, plenty of spare hardware exists in the team to allow for JV builds. These JV builds can provide the hands on time needed to keep everybody interested has they prepare for their own Varisty years.

Finially, my experience leads me to believe that the best FIRST teams generally have a large diverse population with strong mentoring and solid community support. Pool your mentors, pool your community support and WELCOME every member of your student body to your ONE school team.

"FIRST is NOT about the ROBOT..."

trust me 2 team one school has is a very good thing for us is

"Sponsor funding is limited.":
haveing saved us money as only the vet team go to altanta the rookies can go once there on 340 or if they win FLR

"When incremental funding is available is it better spent on starting another team in a school that is already served?":
we save money we have worked with our sponsor to start 3 more teams in our in the local area with the money and because there more square feet of robot we have started pulling in kids from other schools wear there not enough interest to start a full sized team.

"Two team schools always seem too focused on just the robot and forget about the core mission of FIRST" :how can you inspired a kid to get in to engineering when they never get to work on the robot because there 29 other kid already work and designing it

[AllieLallah15]

Take a look at team 1988, The Sweetie Pies. They broke off from their school's team, and it's a team of three girls. They came to the Wisc. regional with their school, stayed in a hotel with their guys team, but competed as a seperate team.

[Scott Carpman]

The judges at Connecticut kept wondering about this trend and each one asked me: "Do you ever see both teams coming back together again?". They really didn't understand what is going on in NYC/NJ with the Barry Weinberg grants.

[Joe G.]

We did this this year with our vex team. It worked well for recruiting more girls, as we went from 3 to about 9. However, make sure that you have the funds to support this team. Add up all the hidden costs of a new team that you may not have thought about in a while, such as new crate, new cart, new shirts, and then double all recurring yearly expenses. Assume on more mentors. Finally, assume on doubling the quantities of tools that are always in use (try building two vex robots with only one allen set ) If you can pass this test comforitably, and have nothing else like "we should really be saving for a cnc lathe" planned, then go for it.

If you do, i suggest that you keep as many activities outside of construction of the robot as together as possible. Judging by the numbers you have posted, and assuming that there will be a large effort to get more girls to join, I am assuming that the girl team will have less experience. This happened with our team, however, there was an initail effort to "let the girls do it on their own." However, midway through the build, ideas began flowing between teams, and both the teams were much better off. We would have been even better off if we had held design sessions, etc. together. If the teams are mentoring each other, it both helps both teams, and pays off in the chairman's submission.

Good luck in your descision.

PS. see this thread on a similar topic when my team was going through the same thing.

[Cappeh]

Our team [716] this year has about 15 students on it, three of which are girls. We don't have problems with the guys taking over the build and design of the robot; that could just be the way our members are, but if you politely let people on your team know that they are being pushy, and that the girls can do just as much work as they can, I'm sure that you won't have any issues.

Having two teams in one school could be difficult due to funding, as others have said. I personally think that having a coed team is much better than a split team when the school itself has both girls and boys. After high school and college, those students that go into science and technology won't be given a single-sex workplace; I'd say it's better to get the girls used to having to push back to get themselves involved. I know I've had to do that several times, and it's worked for me.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do~

[lproxster]

Starting a new team is hard and requires load of funding, to say the least. Starting an all-girls' team is even harder.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for it (hey, I'm on one) but really, be prepared for challenges. It's hard to recruit girls (we have about 15 girls on the team this year, most whom are underclassmen), I can't even begin to tell you how many girls told me that they didn't want to join because they were too busy, etc.

On the otherhand, at the Connecticut Regional this weekend, a lot of girls came up to us to tell us how lucky we were to be in an all-girls team because they couldn't/weren't allowed to work on what they really wanted. A lot of parents also liked the idea and were asking us how the team started.

[ZakuAce]

Originally Posted by AllieLallah15

Take a look at team 1988, The Sweetie Pies. They broke off from their school's team, and it's a team of three girls. They came to the Wisc. regional with their school, stayed in a hotel with their guys team, but competed as a seperate team.

Yep, and they won the Judges Award on Friday. Way to go girls!

[Gene Williams]

My perspective from the build room, drive team and pits: with 2 teams yields 2 drive teams, twice as much to do during build season, 2 robots to design and build, 2 sets of tools, 2 sets of spare parts, 2 sets of shipping crates, 2 sets of part totes, 2 controllers, 2 scouting teams, and so on and so on, you get the logistics of where this is going...the good from all this is simple...from the high school student population that participates in FIRST robotics there is now twice as many opportunities. That to me is most important because that's what it's all about, getting involved and experiencing first hand the rush you get working with students and professionals!!! These are the relationships / memories that last us a lifetime. For those students on very large teams that want a chance to drive the robot, design and fabricate the robot, program the robot and work in the pits...the chance of fulfilling that dream is now much better as there are now twice as many opportunities if you choose the 2 teams in one school approach! We were facing that situation a few years back when we had too many kids on the team, it was a very trying situation indeed to keep each and every student busy with some aspect of team responsibility. We on Teams 70 and 494 have been blessed with great sponsors and lots of parental / mentor support, school support and community support and involvement from all to make this happen!!! I can tell you first hand that this works.

[Laura_587]

As a girl, I think its really important to learn to work with the boys. The reality is most engineers are men, and if a girl wants to become an engineer, she has got to get used to working with guys. I'd suggest giving the boys a speech about letting the girls work and listening to them, and encouraging the girls. We've had a problem on our team with girls not getting involved because they don't know how to, not because they didn't want to.
Your team is small enough that you should stay as one team, and just have an extra goal of getting girls involved.