At Competition

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It's pretty simple to me.
a. cussing/foul language under any circumstances shows a lack of professionalism and respect for self, team, and organization.

b. cussing/foul language shows lack of restraint and self control.
There is more to the competition aspect of FIRST than controlling the robot, there is the self-control factor.

Kindness and respect are a big part of how we conduct ourselves as members of FIRST.

Dittos !!

It is very safe to say that a major part of what a team is doing is marketing the mission and values of FIRST to the general public. And there is just simply no accommodation for ill behavior.

If we have done our homework we should be surrounded by the public at our events. Just last weekend at the Peachtree we had 2nd and 3rd grade girl scouts in our booth and their grandmothers.

So I'm all for behaving.

[D_Price]

Ok, I didnt want to sound as though I wanted a witch hunt or anything. I didnt want to sound rude. I was just curious. Nevermind.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by EricH

If you ever hear me cursing, come over and knock me over the head...

So now we've gone from cursing to you reccomending physical abuse as a cure for it... greaaat...

Let's hope no one uses that approach.

Btw, I know what you meant... Just something to get your attention. You don't expect someone to come over and randomly hit you. lol I just thought that was a rather ironic way you said it compared to the current problem at hand.

What's the saying?? "Stick & stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me"?
Obviously the person who wrote that never heard of the field of psychology.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

So now we've gone from cursing to you reccomending physical abuse as a cure for it... greaaat...

Let's hope no one uses that approach.

Let's hope they don't have to.

[Nawaid Ladak]

here is my $0.02

Guys, Their Just WORDS, cool down. words are assigned a certin meaning. it just so happens taht these words were assigned a negitive meaning to most.

cool down everyone, i know i swear, and i have done it in the pits. more than once in fact, and i certinly don't regret it (i expect neg rep for this, but remember this is my $0.02)

[K-Dawg]

Which particular teams it was this time is not important. I have seen this problem at every completion sometimes worse than others.
I don’t mean for it to sound like it is always happening it has just been bad enough for me to notice it every time. These young ladies I am sure have heard it before and possible used it before but, their parents have trusted me with them and I don’t think a school activity is the place to just let that type of language go. It really surprised me to see how many mentors where allowing this without saying anything.

Thanks again,
K-dawg

[Madison]

In 2005, our drive team was warned by a referee about the language they used during a match. I didn't hear what they said, but the ref indicated we'd get disqualified from our match if they heard it again. Cursing probably is inappropriate at a FIRST competition, but I'd take it over sexism any day of the week.

You'll think that FIRST kids are angles

I frequently find them to be obtuse.

[Brandon Holley]

I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating profanity, and that it should be used in a FIRST competition.

Our team has implemented the "quarter" jar system. If someone on the team lets a curse slip, a slap on the wrist (not literally) and a quarter goes in the jar. Just a friendly reminder that we are trying to be professional.

If you make it such a taboo that if someone says it the whole world collapses, its going to make you very frustrated.

Everyone should do their best to avoid cursing at all costs, especially in front of young PEOPLE who we are trying to set an example for. Honestly though, people let it slip sometimes (I know i've added my fair share to the quarter jar), but making a big deal out of it is not the way to solve the problem.

If you hear someone let one slip, kindly remind them. I cannot see anyone at a FIRST competition becoming heated over someone telling them to stop cursing.

[jumpe1990]

So aside from the fact that this is a mentor driven post about a mentor coupled (is that the word I want?) problem let's get more student input.

I understand that obscenities are a big problem and the problem needs to be adressed but it can only be adressed on a personal level. If you considers others around you further then those you are comfortable with (who are in your pit) than you choose not to cuss.
One thing I don't understand is why it poses such a big problem. What has a cuss word ever done to someone? ESPECIALLY in a song, I mean what kind of... stuff....is that??
And a it's a bit chauvinistic (sp?) to target males as the majority source of the problem, in fact I think the mentors are the major culprits in this foul language...thing? xD
But ya know, maybe it's just me, everyone here on this team has parents in the army and our mentors are majority armed forces enlisted. Cussing is accepted easily here I suppose.
That's just my rant =\

[647techangel]

Originally Posted by jumpe1990

But ya know, maybe it's just me, everyone here on this team has parents in the army and our mentors are majority armed forces enlisted. Cussing is accepted easily here I suppose.
That's just my rant =\

especially if your dad was a drill instuctor like mine


Students learn from thier Parents and Mentors.You must put this into consideration,so what we do we directly learn from you.

[Kims Robot]

Im all for the constructive ideas presented here (ok we get that there are different levels of chivalry, old-fashionedness, real-worldedness, etc among all of us). I think K-dawg did the right thing in asking the teams around their team as well as perhaps a friendly reminder on the announcements. Ideas like presenting to your team to set an example, or like Elgin's hanging signs in the pits, or even the quarter jar are easy ways to try to extend the FIRST culture and professionalism.

So to the topic, yes we are all human, and many of us, I included, have generally let something slip. However, we can encourage it not to be an every other sentence practice, as we know that it might offend others around us. It is about respect. Saturday there were so many little kids coming through our pits to ask for buttons or to see our robot, that our students were constantly tapping eachother on the shoulder to be on our best behavior.

What I am amazed that I havent seen yet in this thread is the whole concept of GP: "to act as if your Grandmother were watching" or "to make your Grandmother proud". Now I know that many grandmothers may be "cooler" these days, and not stick a bar of soap in your mouth for saying a swear word, but many of us still wont purposfully swear infront of our parents or grandparents. Heck, I still feel weird swearing in front of my dad, and Im 27! He never swears in front of me... in fact I dont think I've ever heard him swear.

Does that mean I never do? No. Have I slipped in front of my students? Yes. Do I ever swear at work? Nearly never. Its not professional, and while some places may "swear like dockworkers" I guarantee if you go to any big engineering companies, its not commonplace. Its not professional and it doesnt gain you respect. I've not once heard any of our contractors swear in front of us. They want to retain our business, so they treat us with respect. Do I think swearing should be banned? or teams witchhunted? No, definitely not. Do I think teams should try and act more professionally at competition? Of course. FIRST is lightyears away from any major sporting event. You would NEVER see the Patriots give the Giants a timeout in the superbowl. So we should continue to act like it.

So going back to constructive ideas, i want to Steal Elgin's and modify it. Don't just make signs, make buttons! Do something like "I make my Grandmother Proud" or "My Grandmother IS watching (don't swear!)" or something like that, hand them out at events, or even give awards to teams for improving once you mention something to them. Perhaps stay away from things that are outside the FIRST culture (no-swearing zone may make your team seem goody-goody, but sticking with the Proud Grandmother theme is part of FIRST culture). Come up with a list of "20 reasons not to swear" or "20 things to say instead of swears", make it funny and catchy and hand those out at events. People will laugh but see your point.

But in the end, realize that some people wont change, that some students arent brought up to respect the wishes of others or to consider swearing wrong, or perhaps its commonplace on their teams to swear. Everyone is different, and in the end, we all have to accept eachother for who we are. I would like to think that if asked in the right way all teams would respect others, but often its either dismissed or ignored, if its not presented in a convincing manor. So figure out the motive for these teams that bother you, look at it through their eyes, they obviously dont see anything wrong with it (which each of us is entitled to), but figure out how you can convince them. Whether its through something funny, some cute buttons, or by talking to the right person on their team...

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Our team has implemented the "quarter" jar system. If someone on the team lets a curse slip, a slap on the wrist (not literally) and a quarter goes in the jar. Just a friendly reminder that we are trying to be professional.

Is the money going to fund the new church roof? (sorry, I love Hot Fuzz)

Originally Posted by K-Dawg

..These young ladies..

Thanks again,
K-dawg

That's my main problem. If you want to leave a good impression on your team and have the respect of your parents, why are you singling out the women, treating them as victims, then say you are not being sexist just protective. So the women have to be protected from the scary scary men who curse? Sexism isn't just treating women badly, but also much more strongly and protecting them more than men. I know you guys are mostly a women oriented team, but for those men on the team maybe if you show the same worry we could nip this in the bud quicker.

If you want to protect people from cursing at least make it a blanket policy and not some sort of singling out of people. Have it so that you want it to be a nicer place overall, not just for "ladies".

/end rant

*PS: I curse, and understand what everyone is saying, I'm more worried about the overproctective aspect of OP.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by EricH

You think high school is bad...Try college. 'Nuff said.

I'm with Eric on this one... pretty sure college is ALOT worse than high school.

I certainly don't profess to be a profanity-free person, by no means. I like to think that I'm pretty good with it, and alot of that comes from when I choose to use such terminology. Reminds me of THIS image.

[Kims Robot]

Everyone seems to be so caught up on the "young ladies" side of things here. Different people are raised differently, and there are many places where young men are taught to be "polite" around young ladies. I can't say Im in this camp or agree/don't agree, but I think its silly here to focus on that, rather than on the issue (profanity).

I'll be honest, occassionally its refreshing to look back at the old style of thought... I love it when a guy opens a door for me, or one story that I love to relate is I went to dinner with several co-workers and a group of our customers from Romania. All of my co-workers and the head sales guy walked into the room we were going to eat dinner in, and thinking I would be polite, I held back to let our customers go first... none of them would enter the room until I did because I was the only "lady" there. Part of it made me blush, and yes, I realize that often comes with the stigma that women cant get as high professionaly as men, but I think the core of it is being polite to other people, and upholding moral values. Im not saying people here dont have morals, but society now adays grows away from it in claims of "free speech" and "equality". I was shocked when this happened because I was so used to equality coming with lack of chivalry. They both listened to me at dinner and presented this chivalrous attitude.

Im not saying everything we do has to be women or men, chivalry or not, my point is that there are different ways that people are brought up... K-dawg is obviously from a different school of thinking than most students that read this are. Im somewhere in between. Agree or dont agree with the profanity issue, but stop attacking the "young ladies" comment.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

What I am amazed that I havent seen yet in this thread is the whole concept of GP: "to act as if your Grandmother were watching" or "to make your Grandmother proud". Now I know that many grandmothers may be "cooler" these days, and not stick a bar of soap in your mouth for saying a swear word, but many of us still wont purposfully swear infront of our parents or grandparents.

In general, this is a very good idea. But we have to acknowledge that there are always the exceptions that prove the rule. For example, asking me not to swear in front of my grandmother was always sort of pointless - she was the one that taught me to swear.

(none the less, Kim's point is well taken)

-dave