Scoring incorrect

[nuggetsyl]

After reading though cd I wanted to take a poll of teams that really did have there scores miscounted. I want to see if this is wide spread or just a few mishaps that are getting blown up.

[Taylor]

We've had some herded balls missed, and a couple of laps weren't counted. None of the instances affected the outcome of the matches, though.

EDIT: All the discrepancies we saw were early Friday morning; as far as we're concerned, scoring was correct Friday afternoon and Saturday.

[Rick TYler]

There's an underlying assumption in this poll that the teams' scoring is correct and that of the referees is incorrect. I would challenge this hypothesis. There have obviously been referee mistakes in scoring, but that is far different than making a (hidden) assumption that the teams always understand what their true score should have been and that the refs don't.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

There's an underlying assumption in this poll that the teams' scoring is correct and that of the referees is incorrect. I would challenge this hypothesis. There have obviously been referee mistakes in scoring, but that is far different than making a (hidden) assumption that the team always understand what their true score should have been and that the refs don't.

I wholeheartedly agree with you as pertains to hurdling or herding. There may be instances where a hurdle touched an alliance robot before the floor, or the robot was touching the trackball as it passed the finish line. However, laps are completely objective. When a team sees its robot complete 4 or 5 laps, and the lapscore shows 0, there's no question that there is a discrepancy.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

There's an underlying assumption in this poll that the teams' scoring is correct and that of the referees is incorrect.

Indeed. I saw a match at the Boilermaker regional where one robot consistently put a trackball across the overpass on each lap, but about half the time the driver moved forward too soon and re-contacted the ball before it hit the floor. The spoiled hurdles were correctly not counted, but I wouldn't be surprised if many people didn't realize the team's mistake and thought it was a scoring error.

1986's match that was scored incorrectly happened to be in the 3rd match of the semi's at Kansas City. We had consistantly be getting 8 laps and that match we got 4. We also lost by 8 points. The bad part was that we didn't figure this out until Sunday evening after watching the match. We watched it and counted at least 8 laps but the final score only said 4. This was extremely depressing and that small error knocked us out of the competition.

[Athleticgirl389]

I know in New Jersey, Team 102 had a few matches where they went around about 2-3 more times than counted. Sure, it got on our nerves, but there was nothing we could really do about it. I aint so sure about the whole flag bit being the thing that counts - because if it comes disconnected, you're outa luck

[catsylve]

We did indeed have a match put up on the scoreboard with an incorrect score at one regional and the members of my team were highly upset because it was a critical match. After the regional was over, however, I made them watch the replay and count the scoring for BOTH alliances. At this point, they saw that the other team's score was not reported correctly either and they had still beaten our alliance. Most probably, the mistake was in not putting the FINAL score up on the screen correctly, not a fault of the referees.

I find that it helps to remind my team that the real reason they are doing this is to learn and develop skills. The game and any mistakes that can be made will never be able to negate what they have gained by working with the mentors. The game is supposed to be fun!

[Gabe Salas Jr.]

This was brought up on the 2008 Florida Regional thread.

To summarize, view the drastic change in score at 1:50 for Finals Match 1 at the Florida Regional.

I am more interested in the reason for the large discrepancy of the score during matches. I know that I do not want to win nor lose because of a miss-score. I just want to know what really happened.

At Florida, I do know that a couple of matches were re-played during qualifying because of a miss-score, but I don't want this to be a prevalent thing especially with the large number of teams at Championships.

There isn't much control over the score and I hope this issue is addressed before championships. If not, it would be a shame to encourage a teammate to keep an eye on the scoreboard instead of the field enjoying the game.

May I suggest putting one ref to each robot since there is so much going on during a match?

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by catsylve

Most probably, the mistake was in not putting the FINAL score up on the screen correctly, not a fault of the referees.

It's just about impossible for a Scorekeeper to display the wrong score. The scorekeeper doesn't enter laps or hurdles, they are done automatically based on counters and the data entry pads held by the referees. The only time the scorekeeper actually changes the scoring is by entering the number of penalties and G14 bonus scores at the end of the match, or by entering corrections to the lap scores (which the refs give to the scorekeeper). In this year's game, there is no scoring actually done by the scorekeepers. So, "putting the final score up" incorrectly can only be done if the scorekeepers don't wait for adjustments from the referees before pushing the "commit score" button. This would only happen once! Not to be a "blame them" kind of person, but in "Overdrive" any scoring mistakes would most likely be with the refs or the electronics, since the scorekeepers would have to really, really try to display any score other than what the refs intended.

Rick "Trained scorekeeper" TYler

[jtus]

The scoring and reffing is worst this year than ever before

Originally Posted by jtus

The scoring and reffing is worst this year than ever before

The only reason that is, is because this game is more difficult to score.

Last year, the points were totaled at the end of the game without any problems. They would look at the rack, and if robots were on ramps.

This year, the only thing to look at when the match ends is if there is a bonus. The laps must be counted constantly along with hurdles and herding, plus there are many more fouls this year than in years past.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by jtus

The scoring and reffing is worst this year than ever before

Pretty strong statement from a new poster with two weeks' background on Delphi...

[Bharat Nain]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

Pretty strong statement from a new poster with two weeks' background on Delphi...

That says nothing about their experiences in FIRST though. There are mentors in FIRST who never post or read CD and I would listen to them any day over most people on CD.

[Jeff Waegelin]

At BAE we had two matches misscored. In a qualifying match, we placed a trackball on top of our overpass, which then got knocked forward and off the rails by an opponent. This *should* have been scored as a hurdle, but was not scored at all. We lost the match by fewer than 8 points, so this misscored hurdle was the deciding factor. This was also not the only time we saw this happen at BAE - one side's refs were consistently not scoring hurdles in this kind of situation on Friday. They did improve, and correctly scored such matches on Saturday.

We also had one match - a semifinal - where the autonomous score was not scored correctly. There was a 2 minute delay while the referees adjusted the score, and I'm still not sure if it ever got corrected properly.