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Unread 21-03-2008, 21:33
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Re: Why is anyone surprised at ref problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
I want to second what Dana has written. Aiden has great passion for FIRST and FIRST teams. He was a mentor on a team and felt he could make a bigger difference contributing to the game design and reffing. Aiden has taken measures to make sure the refs are certified, which is a bigger step than any of his predessesors. He is trying to fix what he thought was broken. Although his original response to Madison was a bit harsh, please do not judge him by one post. He is a wonderful human being who has dedicated a significant part of his life spreading the mission of FIRST.

Many people talk about not judging a book by its cover, but they also don't give most new members of Chief Delphi a chance. Dr. Browne, no matter what he stands for or what he says, would have been negative repped by the community with ALL fires against. Although he is an "elite" member of the FIRST community his limited posts, that range from questions for the fields in Atlanta to a few posts like the one we are discussing, are very little to give most of us, whom have never had the opportunity and probably will not, an idea of what kind of person he is and judge him on that.

I know when I joined the Chief community, I was told EACH posts represents ME, my team, and my sponsors. I do not think that being a key member of the GDC gives him immunity from that.

Many of the people on Chief are being hypocrites on this issue. If it was anyone less 'popular/important' I can bet anything that the CD community would have shunned this person and made him scared to return.

Hold EVERYONE to the same standards.


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Unread 21-03-2008, 22:06
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Re: Why is anyone surprised at ref problems?

This is hard to write.

Let us not forget that the game is a by-product of the goal. Regardless of what a ref said, get over it.

It is only a Game.Scholarships are not based on how well a team plays a game. Applications are.

No, I have not read, nor care to discuss the relevance to any individual, group, or organization.

Let's focus on the goals here. Are the FIRST team members learning skills to help them outside of HS and perhaps land a lucrative scholarship or job? Y or N?

Are the FIRST members learning teamwork? Y or N?

Are FIRST members learning that sometimes they will disagree with the opinions of someone in their command chain, even if it is different from their employer or school policies? Y or N?

If the above is YES, Are we as mentors / instructors teaching the students the proper methods to approach the subject? Sure it's a parent's job, but kids listen to neighbors better. Y or N?

Let's all move past this thread.

Personally, the Referee job performance at UCF in Florida was flawless. There was a last minute change to one of the rules that made perfect sense to me. The cross-over-the-line penalties were reduced.

It sometimes takes a week or two to get the discrepancies ironed out of the gray areas of the rules.

It's not like we are playing baseball. It's a new game.
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Unread 21-03-2008, 22:47
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Re: Why is anyone surprised at ref problems?

I believe that this year's ref problems are mostly due to GDC flaws. For example, they probably should have adopted Dave Flowerday's minor change to fix G22 (i.e. give "breaking the plane" the soccer definition rather than the basketball definition) after its flaws were revealed during week 1. If they had, the refs would've likely have been able to put much more time/effort into making more consistent and reliable touch and judgement foul calls instead of policing the lines. What I have seen is that in many matches the refs only have time to watch the lines plus the hurdlers. Lower tier robots are getting mugged (contact outside bumper zone) when the refs aren't looking and then getting called for incidental touch fouls while passing hurdlers that are blocking traffic.

The GDC really looks like they made this game hard to ref. Perhaps they should consult more with seasoned basketball refs when they develop. Ideally they design games where the refs usually stay in the background. That certainly didn't happen this year.
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