The Case For 'Regionalizing' teams at the Nationals.

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Posted by Michael Ciavaglia.

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Interior Systems.

Posted on 8/18/2000 6:21 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: My take on why... posted by Splash on 8/17/2000 3:05 PM MST:



I totally agree with the idea of having matches on Thursday. The time at Disney is soo valuable! If we are tied to a three day event then one way of getting more matches is reducing/eliminating the practice rounds on Thursday.

I am more for the reducing practice time rather than eliminating because it is important to get the drive team out on the stage. The drive team needs to get rid of the jitters.

However, what if the we started earlier on Thursday morning to get one practice for all the teams by noon. The elimination round could begin by 1:00 P.M. This could increase the number of qualification matches or allow the elimination matches to be over by Friday night.

What is the difference if teams are repairing machines and practicing all day Thursday at Disney or if we give every team a 'Bonus Day' before the ship date. Instead of shipping on a Tuesday, make the ship date Wednesday and call Wednesday the 'Bonus Day' right from the beginning. I know the pit fall, teams will think they have until Wednesday instead of Tuesday, but this is called time management and FIRST shouldn't be responsible for that. What FIRST can do is add a 'Bonus Day' to compensate for the lost time at Disney.

What is the difference if you are fixing your machine in (insert your city) or at Disney fixing your machine? The time at Disney is very valuable and FIRST needs to maximize it to benefit the competition.

Bottome Line: Reduce the practice time at Disney. Add a 'Bonus Day'.

Mike C.

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Posted by Raul.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 8/18/2000 9:31 AM MST


In Reply to: The Case For 'Regionalizing' teams at the Nationals. posted by Joe Johnson on 8/15/2000 7:02 AM MST:



Wow - it took me a while to catch up with all the postings. All this stuff sounds great. I agree with Joe's ideas in this and his other related tread.

I have one other suggestion to build on what Mike C. said - I wish I thought of this before the forum was over:

How about if we instead of having practice rounds, having more seeding matches and call them practice rounds? You know how last year we threw out everyone's worst score. Well just throw out the worst 3 scores. In effect, the 3 worst scores could be your practice rounds. If you don't do well, you can go fix your robot before the next match and try again. And if it still needs fixing you still have time to do that.

Of course, if you do well in the early rounds that would normally be called practice, you can count them. I agree that time at Disney is too precious to waste on practice rounds that almost no one watches or takes seriously because they don't count. This gives everyone more opportunities for everything. Play more matches, meet and team up with more teams, scout more matches. And most importantly, by eliminating 3 scores, it reduces the luck factor.

And why wait for the nationals; we should do this at the regionals. Just think about how many matches you could run.

I know some of you are thinking, what about when only 2 out of the 4 teams show up because so many teams are not ready on the first day (this happens quite often at the regionals). Well, it just gives those that are ready a chance to show there stuff whether alone, with a partner or two-on-one or one on two. Any way you look at it, more matches that can potentially count can only help. Also, if everyone knows that these matches could count, teams will try harder to be ready rather than just saying 'will fix it when we get there during the practice day'.

One issue - how do we get everyone inspected before the macthes start. Or do we really have to? If they get inspected and are found to be non-compliant, then they forfeit those matches. Is that so bad - remember you get to drop 3 matches (or what ever number would fit during the normal practice time)? If you have practice rounds nothing counts anyway.

I've said enough for now.

Raul

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Posted by Janna.

Student on team #349, The RoBahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Company.

Posted on 8/18/2000 2:46 PM MST


In Reply to: Eliminate Practice rounds!! posted by Raul on 8/18/2000 9:31 AM MST:



Hi...

Ok, I really like the idea that both Mike C. and Raul came up with and how they've combined them. The only issue that I saw as unresolved was the inspection, so I have a suggestion. Before I start, as a disclaimer, there are two variables that I have no idea about: shipping time and the inspectors. Assuming robots get to the venue at least a day before competition and that inspectors can do some inspecting without a team's help, this is my suggestion. If your robot is pretty much done when it is shipped and ready to be inspected, you could communicate this to FIRST somehow (don't ask me how, I don't know the details...maybe mark the crate or something.) So at the competition on the Wednesday night or something, inspectors could go through the marked crates and inspect with an abbreviated list (size, weight, etc.) I know teams would feel a little concerned about having inspectors poking around inside the robot, but if there could even be a few very general criteria met and the rest on Thursday, then that's less rushing the inspectors have to do before each team has three matches or whatever (because personally if I had to tell a team that all *four* previous matches were forfeited, I'd feel pretty bad...) and less worrying that the team has to do.

So for example, Team A has really good time management, has followed all the rules in the rulebook, and built everything perfectly (at least from the rules standpoint.) They pass preliminary inspection on Wednesday and compete in their qualifying matches Thursday. Sometime during the day, they get inspected fully, and, of course, pass. No scores lost, no worries.

Team B throws their robot in pieces into the crate, having not read the rulebook, and arrives without preliminary inspection. They quickly throw together their robot Thursday morning and compete in a few matches before finding out they'd have to forfeit them due to failure to pass inspection. They now have no extra rounds left to use.

I think this would give teams incentive to read the rulebook *carefully* and also to have a finished product by ship date, when they can ship and not have to worry until it's time to go out onto the field.

Janna

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Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 8/18/2000 7:34 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Eliminate Practice rounds!! posted by Janna on 8/18/2000 2:46 PM MST:



Don't forget that most robots have already passed inspection at a regional.

It is a very small minority of teams that don't go to a regional prior to the Nationals.

I propose that if a team has passed inspection, they should be allowed to skip most steps of the inspection except for things that have changed. This should allow most teams to fly through inspections in no time, only explaining the changes made (if any) since the last regional.

Of course every robot should have to weigh in because when a robot is 129.9 lbs (as we try to be every year) even a little rust can put you over the limit ;-)

Joe J.