**FIRST EMAIL**/Important Reminders

[Uberbots]

Originally Posted by corpralchee

So what actually happened? Any details?

Well considering that the perpetrators now have to live with the fact that they cost their team the chance to compete, id expect that FIRST isnt going to punish them any more by releasing their actions to the public.

[Qbranch]

Maybe someone was looking for a sharholder's/financial report on FIRST?

Just playing devil's advocate, but if a genie came and said "And what information about FIRST would you like to know?" I'd like to know which way the cash flows.

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

[Chaos204]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Maybe someone was looking for a sharholder's/financial report on FIRST?

Just playing devil's advocate, but if a genie came and said "And what information about FIRST would you like to know?" I'd like to know which way the cash flows.

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

I agree that there is a lot of money going into each regional ~4000 per team but what makes you think the venue pays FIRST (sorry if it is changing the subject) If anything the venue may be donated.

I don't know or have any actual information just speculation.
I also don't know specifics about what actually happened but we are supposed to be bigger than this. Which worries me that it possibly wasn't one of us.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by Chaos204

I agree that there is a lot of money going into each regional ~4000 per team but what makes you think the venue pays FIRST (sorry if it is changing the subject) If anything the venue may be donated.

I don't know or have any actual information just speculation.
I also don't know specifics about what actually happened but we are supposed to be bigger than this. Which worries me that it possibly wasn't one of us.

I asked the University of Illinois.

I'm amazed that somebody would try to hack FIRST too... but I won't say the ability isn't there.

-q

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

I'm amazed that somebody would try to hack FIRST too.

-q

Are you honestly that surprised?? We're engineers/programmers/electricians/intelligent people. While I don't condone the activity, I am not surprised someone tried it in the least.

[Tom Line]

Careful guys.

There is, at this time, absolutely no proof that these "users" were FRC users. In fact, one of the most common hacking / phishing methods is to install a trojan / rootkit / backdoor on someone's machine, and thus gain access to their email and saved passwords. Then, by going through that same person's machine, not only do you have their passwords, but you appear to be "them".

Anyone who has run an FTP or email server knows that you literally get thousands of port probes and password-generator hits per hour. In the past I've had people trying to hack in from Air Force computers in Nevada. Of course I have no doubt it wasn't them - some office schmoe simply allowed his computer to be compromised.

Let's not jump the gone and start looking at First teams. This could have been anyone, and First certainly isn't going to say one way or the other.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Maybe someone was looking for a sharholder's/financial report on FIRST?

Just playing devil's advocate, but if a genie came and said "And what information about FIRST would you like to know?" I'd like to know which way the cash flows.

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

FIRST's annual reports are not hidden. Starting in 2007 they also published audited financials. Look here.

[dez250]

I guess im going to be a genie today.

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Maybe someone was looking for a sharholder's/financial report on FIRST?

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

You mean someone would try to "hack" a site for some publically available information. Also i would double check your facts on "the site pays FIRST to have the regional there". For i would think this may mean they help finance the regional's costs, because as many know, an FRC regional event is not a cheap event to host.

(Sorry if this went OT)

[BiTurboS4]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

The site does not pay FIRST to have the event there, it's quite the opposite, FIRST pays to rent a venue and to put on the competition.

Also, the money you pay to goto a regional, championship, and to register for the season doesn't go directly to your program, but goes into the organization as a whole.

[Swan217]

You'd think with all of the attention that Chief Delphi has received from the GDC over the past year, they'd have the courtesy of filling us in ::end snark::

Honestly, I don't see any information on the FIRST website worth stealing by a FIRST team. It might have just been a random malicious hit, or even a bitter ex-FIRSTer that got kicked out of FIRST and was lashing out.

[BiTurboS4]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

You'd think with all of the attention that Chief Delphi has received from the GDC over the past year, they'd have the courtesy of filling us in ::end snark::

The GDC has nothing to do with what happened.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

...when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

I think you might be confusing sponsorship with payment. FIRST definitely pays in order to use the venue for a competition.

There is usually a major sponsor (or several) of the event that gives FIRST a lot of money. Such money would typically be "restricted" to help pay for that specific event. Sometimes a sponsor is closely affiliated with the venue, such as with Purdue University and the Armory. Sometimes not, as with Microsoft and the Tacoma Convention Center. But the site never pays FIRST.

[GeorgeTheEng]

Originally Posted by Qbranch

Maybe someone was looking for a sharholder's/financial report on FIRST?

Just playing devil's advocate, but if a genie came and said "And what information about FIRST would you like to know?" I'd like to know which way the cash flows.

When you work the numbers out... the income FIRST has is staggering... remember, when you go to a regional, not only do you (as a team) pay to go there, the site pays FIRST to have the regional there as well...

-q

I think there is a slight misconception here, that I heard periodically. FIRST is a public charity recognized by the IRS under section 501(c)(3) of the US Tax codes. This means among other things that FIRST cannot have shareholders who benefit from activities of the organization. This is also the reason many individuals and some corporations provide support to FIRST, it is tax deductible. (don't beleive me, look it up... Seach for "US Foundation for the Inspiration & Recognition Science & Technology" on the IRS list of charities)

It would be amusing if someone was after detailed financial information that is already available.

As for more detailed information or anything proprietary, FIRST behaves like most corporations; meaning that it's internal data is not stored anywhere near the same computers that house the web site.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I really hope they're not silly enough to think accessing old files still hosted on the server is "hacking". (I've seen sillier, though.) I've hit the site through archive.org recently to get docs for old games for archival purposes and to look into some rules history. Many of the PDFs, graphics, etc. were still around, so perhaps they left some of the old FoxPro framework laying about or something and someone's been poking at it.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

I really hope they're not silly enough to think accessing old files still hosted on the server is "hacking". (I've seen sillier, though.) I've hit the site through archive.org recently to get docs for old games for archival purposes and to look into some rules history. Many of the PDFs, graphics, etc. were still around, so perhaps they left some of the old FoxPro framework laying about or something and someone's been poking at it.

I doubt that it was some one looking at old files. I would tend to guess that some team member some where was trying to "hack" the site, possibly adding graffiti or changing text.

The assumption that "hackers" would be looking for something likely has no truth to it. There is a good chance it was some kid running trying to get edit a fairly public page.