Saving seats and Dean's homework

[Rick TYler]

Here's a modification to the rule:

"Teams can save space in the back half of the seating area of any event. There shall be NO saving seats in the front half. For example, if there are 30 rows of seats, teams are encouraged to save seats in rows 16 to 30, but may not save seats in the first 15 rows."

Teams that think block seating is important get to sit together, but they won't block seat usage for robotics fans and guests. You will also note that anyone, including team members, is invited to sit in the first 15 rows as long as they don't save seats.

[Mufasa1111]

My team goes down to the field level during our matches, that we we are all together for cheering and whatnot and there is no problem with saving seats. There is enough area for all six teams to go down and cheer around the arena.

Just my two cents.

[mikeqfl]

I am from a very small team. We might only have 6 people at the regional including the drive team. In between matches we are all busy working on the robot, scouting, talking with future alliance partners, ect. We can not afford to leave someone in the stands to "save" our seats. At our last regional, Peachtree, we frequently were banished to the top row end of the arena when we wanted to watch our robot compete due to the large teams saving huge blocks of seats in the middle. It is frustrating to be shoved in a corner while you watch 100s of seats go empty but blocked off by large teams. Yes some teams welcome you when you come into thier block, but just as many, if not more, growl that the seats are saved and ask you to leave. After getting barked at over and over the path of least resistance is to head to the farthest rafters. So for you large teams, while making up your own rules about seat saving contrary to first's policy, think about how it impacts us little guys, not to mention the non-first spectators we are trying to attract. We may be small but we should have equal access to watch our team compete.

[Pat Arnold]

One of our team mentors suggested an effective way to end the seat saving which is supposedly not allowed at FIRST events. His solution is that any team identified as saving seats would automatically be disqualified from being awarded the Spirit Award. Interesting idea!

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Pat A.

One of our team mentors suggested an effective way to end the seat saving which is supposedly not allowed at FIRST events. His solution is that any team identified as saving seats would automatically be disqualified from being awarded the Spirit Award. Interesting idea!

I'd eliminate them from regional chairmans and GP awards too.

[heather]

This is an interesting debate and one I hadn't considered before, this being my first year on the team.

At the NJ regionals we did not exactly save seats, since most of our team sat at a table with laptops which we had set up. However, we did have an area where we dumped all of our coats and such, and where our scouting members sat. On Saturday, some other people from other teams sat in "our" spot, however that was not really an issue, the three scouts who were still in Trenton simply relocated.

I agree with the idea that there should be some kind of coat check in the northern regionals, as on Thursday and Friday our coats likely took up more seats than our team members at any given time (I think on Saturday we just piled them up near our table.

I also have a question about banners... it sounds as if they are not allowed, yet many teams in Trenton had banners hanging up in the general vicinity(sp?) of where they were seated. Is it just the use of banners to exclucively block off seats that is against the rules?

I don't think we can blame teams from wanting to sit together. It is certainly impressive to see the larger teams in a huge mass all cheering.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by Pat A.

One of our team mentors suggested an effective way to end the seat saving which is supposedly not allowed at FIRST events. His solution is that any team identified as saving seats would automatically be disqualified from being awarded the Spirit Award. Interesting idea!

Hm. However, showing team Spirit involves cheering and getting ur team shown. If you dont save seats and get ur team together, how do you show field spirit.
Our team is very small, however we try to take 2 rows of seats from the start so we can get the scouts situated and such. However, during the competition we end up having our space invaded, and we dont care that it happens. we have 20 people max usually, so our seats are never needed to be saved in a big space.
I think siting with your team is important, however, if you save seats that are way to many needed, then that i would consider wrong.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

if you save seats that are way to many needed, then that i would consider wrong.

Actually, since saving seats is a clear violation of FIRST event rules, what you do is wrong, too.

[Herodotus]

We're all mature people here in FIRST, and I would imagine if we just worked together we could figure out a way to make sure that teams sat together but that guests and visitors had plenty of seats to choose from among all the stands.

I think it is equally important that teams sit together and that guests have a very easy time of finding seats and feeling welcomed. In some of the larger venues such as at Great Lakes this is not a problem at all, I guarantee you're team will be able to sit together, and well over half of stands will still be open for guests all over the place, amongst the teams. But at the smaller regionals, such as the Western Michigan it can be very hard for everyone to fit in the venue, let alone sit together.

A few ideas I've had have run along the lines of assigned seating. Each team is allocated a certain number of seats, and if they happen to have more the rest of the team has to sit elsewhere, or else work together with the teams around them to come up with a seating solution that works for everyone.

Who knows, I'm sure we could come up with a good idea.

And just because it is a FIRST rule doesn't mean we can't debate it. Yes, we must follow it, but we can still debate it amongst ourselves and maybe try to come up with a rule that might satisfy a larger percentage of people. There is nothing wrong with discussing the rules.

[2056Durfey]

I agree, I think some way of assigning seats would be a good idea.

My proposal, which I have read stated here in various forms before, would be to cordon off the back/upper half of the seats for teams and leave the lower half for spectators. Of course this would depend on the venue, and as I have only attended competitions in Waterloo and Toronto I canonly speak for those two, but I think something along the lines of this would work well.

Like I said, I have seen some other comments like this one posted here, and I think any idea that alows teams to sit toghether and cheer toghether as a teams well still allowing for seats for visitors is worth trying out.

[ttldomination]

Same thing at peachtree regional. Half of our team was sitting in the aisle while everyone else was saving seats. A bigger venue would definetly solve the issue.

[SL8]

Just one problem, as FIRST continues to grow, we cannot always just " use a bigger venue".

[Scott Carpman]

Originally Posted by SL8

Just one problem, as FIRST continues to grow, we cannot always just " use a bigger venue".

Yes we can.
-NJ can move into the Prudential Center
-Philly can go to the Wachovia Center
-NYC can easily support 2 or 3 fields at the Javits Center
-LI from Hofstra to the Nassau Coliseum
-Boston from the Agganis Arena to the TD Banknorth Garden
-Hartford can go to 2 fields
-Toronto can support 2 fields or move into the SkyDome

[SL8]

Originally Posted by Scott Carpman

Yes we can.
-NJ can move into the Prudential Center
-Philly can go to the Wachovia Center
-NYC can easily support 2 or 3 fields at the Javits Center
-LI from Hofstra to the Nassau Coliseum
-Boston from the Agganis Arena to the TD Banknorth Garden
-Hartford can go to 2 fields
-Toronto can support 2 fields or move into the SkyDome

I am not speaking of now, or even a decade later.
I am talking of extremely far ahead where we will be forced to pack in tightly.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by SL8

I am not speaking of now, or even a decade later.
I am talking of extremely far ahead where we will be forced to pack in tightly.

Before FIRST outgrows a regional venue due to too many teams, there's the other option of simply* holding more regional competitions. I think 40 or 50 teams in one place is comfortably large, 60 is harder to deal with, and 70 is really pushing the limits for a single field at a weekend event.

* Okay, maybe not "simply".